It's a Gundam thread!

IIRC, the Stargazer thing's manga version has an expanded ending.

Just got out of Seed Freedom. Really liked it. I'd give it a solid 8/10. But I must've missed it; when was it revealed Kira is a failed ultimate coordinator? I remember Orphee called him a failure a lot, but that could be due to jealousy. Again though I think I missed it.

Edited by jjjj2 on May 7th 2024 at 9:45:17 AM

I just got back from it too. Definitely a fun ride. Very silly, and absolutely no surprises, but still a lot of fun. I'm glad I'm seeing the dub tomorrow, too — there's a lot going on for most of the runtime, to the point where it was hard to keep up with the subs, so I'm sure I missed a lot of stuff.

I'm pretty sure what that was about was declaring him a failed Accord, not a failure as the Ultimate Coordinator. He wasn't able to singlehandedly bring peace the world, and he isn't on board with their plan, so that makes him a failure in Orphee's eyes.

Literally just got out of the theater.

That was really fun. It truly felt like the capstone the SEED series really needed to finish things off.

Seriously, I had a big dumb smile on my face the entire time, I think.

Shinn is such an absolute dork in this movie and I love it!

I have quibbles about the plot, but for the most part this was just a great movie.

The one thing I find myself scratching my head over is the Destiny's and Freedom's new weapons. Like, Freedom has an EMP that can fry the whole battlefield except Orphee's suit for some reason? And what the hell is with Destiny duplicating itself? Just... HOW? I know it had afterimages before, but afterimages can't DO that!

But that's a minor concern.

The thing that actually makes me sad about this is we'll never see this with the original dub cast...

Edited by DarkHunter on May 7th 2024 at 9:44:12 AM

Talia and Rey dying with Durandal is more about him and less about them

I always thought a interesting what if scenario is the goons managed to kill Lacus and then Meer really has to commit to the bit

Since Lacus reach resources and influence is one of the major advantages the good guys have

cagilla doesn’t even get to be cool in akatsuki then again the story doesn’t ever seem to know with cagilla so her exit feels more like it shrugs and gives up

____

I think Shinn's arc kinda works if you look at it as a negative character arc from the get go -Its got flaws to it but- and the idea that he's Kira without the support pillars

Talia can't be his Murrue due to being A: wrapped up her relationship with Gilbert and While Murrue was more slack Talia tries to stay a distant authority figure

Athrun... I love dearly but he is in no shape to try to be Mu in this instance

Like Shinn's very clearly not had any therapy for his loss, ZAFT has pushed him through flight training based on his natural skill 'Like seeing how Yzak and Dearka were, ZAFT doesn't seem to bother with teaching discipline to their Hotshot Red Suit Elites'

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on May 8th 2024 at 9:24:57 AM

"Lacus sacrifices herself to save Meer" was always one of the more interesting possible changes you could make to Destiny. tbh, I don't think it's really in character for Lacus — she's too calculating, too aware of her own value — but I could see it as a split second heat of the moment thing, where she acted before she really thought it through.

The way I see that going is Meer going to the public and just... telling the truth. That she's not Lacus, that she was a body double arranged by Durandal to rally public support with the power of Lacus's name, and that the real Lacus was killed by Durandal in an attempt to keep the secret. That allows her to step into the role that Lacus was playing as public spokesman — not by just stealing the power of Lacus's name, but by doing what Lacus did, speaking powerfully and honestly about her ideals and her hopes for the future. While having the backing of the most elite military force in the Earth sphere.

I'm not sure that would have been better than what actually happens in Destiny, but it would have at least given the rest of the cast something to react to. Meer's death was always kind of disappointing as a plot twist because it doesn't actually change anything. It doesn't materially affect the plot, and no one grows or changes because of it. Whatever else, Lacus dying would certainly do that.

Looks like Trevor Devall (Mu's original English voice actor) has returned to voice the character for SEED Freedom.

Edited by gjjones on May 8th 2024 at 1:10:28 PM

Now that I've had some time to think, one aspect of the Freedom movie's story is confusing me, though I may be misremembering some details from Destiny.

Aura was apparently conspiring with Durandal on the Destiny Plan, and she engineered her Accords to be the leaders in that Plan, including Lacus. However, this implies that the Destiny Plan has been brewing for nearly twenty years in universe, since none of the Accords are age-accelerated.

But in Destiny, I got the impression that the Destiny Plan was something Durandal came up with in response to the Bloody Valentine War and seeing his friend Rau le Creuset go off the deep end. But that means the Accords couldn't possibly have been part of it, as they would have been born around eighteen years previously.

Am I mistaken about the timing of the Destiny Plan's creation, or did Aura have a pre-existing take over the world scheme and just adopted the Destiny Plan as being convenient for her own goals?

I honestly think it's the latter, given how Durandal held a lot of cards to his chest.

Edited by G2BattleConvoy on May 8th 2024 at 6:12:13 PM

The Destiny Plan was definitely at least on Durandal's mind for a very long time — Lacus gets wind of it before Durandal announces it by having someone investigate the Mendel colony and finding notes on it. Whether or not Durandal had been actively working toward it that whole time is unclear, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Bloody Valentine War was what convinced him that it actually needed to happen.

As far as the Freedom stuff, the impression that I got was that Aura's efforts were parallel to Durandal's, rather than working with him. Durandal thought that everything would work itself out once the Destiny Plan assigned people to their "correct" roles in society, but Aura went a step further and deliberately engineered people to be the leaders of the Destiny Plan society. She may have assumed that they'd naturally rise to the top of Durandal's system, but she was probably willing to hijack his efforts and place them at the top if necessary. Them failing to become leaders, or Durandal resisting their efforts, would have been evidence that his system isn't really fair, because they're obviously genetically superior.

There's a novel version of the movie that apparently expands on a lot of stuff, with a fan translation floating around the internet. I'll have to read those when I get a chance, just to see how much of this sort of thing they cover.

So, apparently, Trevor Devall does come back to reprise his role in Seed Freedom.

Where did you hear that? He's one of my favourites from the old dub.

Official dub credits according to those who watched the film, it seems.

Screenshot of part of the dub credits (also has a screenshot of one of the last shots of the ending, so beware spoilers).

We need a CE version of girhens greed for all these whacky what ifs

—-

I still maintain they missed out on the greatest casting gag of all time by not having tony sampson ‘Miguel in Seed’ return to voice Shinn

I remember hearing in an interview that TS stepped down from acting 'cause he wanted to request for a modest (pay) raise. Got threats of being blacklisted...

Edited by Ominae on May 8th 2024 at 11:24:05 AM

So, I'm on paternity for almost a month and I think it's a good opportunity to do something I've never actually done: watch the original Mobile Suit Gundam series all the way through. If I can get an episode a day I'll be pretty pleased.

Currently on episode 3. Is it weird that I think the animation isn't that bad? I remember it being worse. It's certainly not detailed and janky But it's less static and more dynamic than I remembered it being.

Char is so fun right now. He just seems like a particularly dreaded enemy commander but at the same time they're already sowing seeds for his.... Char-ness.

I know I keep harping on about it, but it does further raise questions Characters.Mobile Suit Gundam that I think has a major problem with Shipping Goggles regarding Fraw Bow. I brought up Ms. Fanservice but a lot of the Love interest examples seem... Forced.

YMMV.Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Freedom has a few examples I question.

• Narm: Stella's ghost appearing and transforming into a monster is meant to be played for horror but it felt so out of place in the realm of the Cosmic Era that it may seem unintentionally hilarious, especially with the Black Knights freaking out for trying to read Shinn's mind. That being said...
• Narm Charm: Stella's ghost is also entertaining precisely for those reasons and after the Blacks Knights have been unbearably smug the entire film, having her scare the shit out of them is very satisfying. Almost as satisfying as seeing Shinn kill them, even. These are mutually exclusive (Narm mean it failed, Charm means it worked), I'm inclined to go for the latter as I've only heard this complaint here.
• Esoteric Happy Ending: Foundation has been defeated and completely neutralized as a threat, hooray! Except Multiple nukes were dropped across Eurasian territories, Requiem was allowed to cut multiple bloody swaths across multiple countries unimpeded, multiple riots were instigated, Many sympathisers jumped at the idea of Coordinator supremacy (although it's very likely they were already under Foundation's payroll), and hundreds of thousands are dead as a result, with the only other bright spot being that Blue Cosmos might have been finally eradicated alongside their leader Michael (which hems on if that was their last bastion or not), which could mean they're no longer able to continue their horrific attacks in the aftermath. The last part argues with itself. The Bittersweet Ending entry states it acknowledges the casualties and likelihood of continued conflict, but they're content to continue to fight for peace. I'd say EHE would only apply if the world's status quo was worse/less peaceful than ever. Thoughts?
• Big-Lipped Alligator Moment: Before the cast enters Foundation for the first time, there's a sudden scene of the original Strike Freedom being destroyed by a purple Rud-Ro.A (The standard Black Knight MS). Aside from the general lack of context, this purple variant (Which may or may not be Liu's, the coloring is somewhat different than his "Spinel" Rud-Ro.A) never shows up again. The novelization explains the Strike Freedom was stolen at some point and the Foundation helped to take it down, but people going off of the movie alone will be confused. BLAM requires it come out of nowhere, be random/outlandish compared to the rest of the work, and have no further reference/impact. The last two criteria seem not to apply as it at least it establishes the Foundations threat, correct?
• Ass Pull: The Spec II machines in general. Minus the Infinite Justice, the Impulse, Destiny, and Strike Freedom were all damaged beyond repair; it's incredibly convenient that the latter three machines were rebuilt from the ground up in complete secrecy and were ready for a large-scale conflict, complete with a full-on Silhouette for the Destiny in particular, in time for a major conflict. The IJ in particular makes sense because it could easily be an upgraded version of the original and was already hiding inside the Z'gok (Both of which share the backpack), but having war machines that single-handedly determined wars being rebuilt solely for "testing" when nuclear powered suits were supposed to have been banned, yet still just as strong, if not moreso, than they were first fielded, is a stretch even for Rule of Cool to waive away easily. This was previously deleted as secretly repairing/new version of their Gundams is exactly what the heroes did in Destiny so there's such precedent it doesn't come out of nowhere. This added back version fails to address that save using banned tech which isn't left field for a group that defied authority to do what's right since the original SEED.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on May 15th 2024 at 7:16:53 AM

Haven't seen the movie, but there being upgraded machines is more... Premise than anything else? Why wouldn't they still be around? Last I checked, the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice were fine, the Impulse is functionally indestructible so long as the Core Splender exists, and the Destiny didn't go nuclear so of course it exists.

I think the only suits to stay dead are the Aegis and Justice because they self destructed.

And that's not getting into the fact that just, violating the nuclear arms treaty is just kinda what Terminal does. It's weirder that they were bothering to pretend to not to at the beginning of Freedom.

I'm pretty sure the Savior Gundam is the only one not to get a variation - i mean it didn't really do much'

Like the Phantom pain squads have variants of the original five

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on May 16th 2024 at 6:23:13 AM

There is a Vent Saviour in SEED's MSV, iirc.

oh right i forgot about See D vs Astray