Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Main / NoSuchThingAsWizardJesus

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Wick update


There is a pretty good reason why this trope is so prevalent. If you try to subvert it, and say that Jesus was, in fact, a [[AWizardDidIt wizard]][=/=][[{{Mutants}} mutant]][=/=][[MagicalNativeAmerican shaman]][=/=][[PsychicPowers psychic]][=/=][[HumanAliens alien]], people [[FlameBait WILL be offended]] (and if you say anything bad about [[Creator/LRonHubbard L. Ron]], you [[FrivolousLawsuit might get sued]]). It doesn't matter how perfect and kind and wonderful you might portray him as, there will be always the implication that he was either delusional, or a charlatan, because he went on to found a religion that portrays him as the son of {{God}} in a [[TheVerse Verse]] where abilities such as his are rather common. It's pretty hard to HandWave that away without making him or the church look bad. Rather than take a side, many works will walk the line with a "[[MaybeMagicMaybeMundane Maybe Miracle, Maybe Magic]]" answer.

to:

There is a pretty good reason why this trope is so prevalent. If you try to subvert it, and say that Jesus was, in fact, a [[AWizardDidIt wizard]][=/=][[{{Mutants}} mutant]][=/=][[MagicalNativeAmerican shaman]][=/=][[PsychicPowers psychic]][=/=][[HumanAliens wizard]][=/=]{{mutant|s}}[=/=][[MagicalNativeAmerican shaman]][=/=]{{psychic|Powers}}[=/=][[HumanAliens alien]], people [[FlameBait WILL be offended]] (and if you say anything bad about [[Creator/LRonHubbard L. Ron]], you [[FrivolousLawsuit might get sued]]). It doesn't matter how perfect and kind and wonderful you might portray him as, there will be always the implication that he was either delusional, or a charlatan, because he went on to found a religion that portrays him as the son of {{God}} in a [[TheVerse Verse]] where abilities such as his are rather common. It's pretty hard to HandWave that away without making him or the church look bad. Rather than take a side, many works will walk the line with a "[[MaybeMagicMaybeMundane Maybe Miracle, Maybe Magic]]" answer.



** ''ComicBook/XMen'': {{Mutants}} have been [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy various important personages]] throughout history and have been around since the dawn of the Egyptian civilization at least. Try crucifying Wolverine and stuffing him in a cave for a couple of days and act surprised when he comes back to life. Also, during the ''Comicbook/HouseOfM'' storyline, a teacher asks who the first mutant was... "and don't say Jesus, since he doesn't count".[[note]]Technically, the teacher in House of M said not to mention Jesus or Moses because she was looking for the first mutant to be recorded historically. She leaves plenty of openings for them to be poorly documented Mutants.[[/note]] Interestingly enough, a few modern storylines subvert this by revealing that some angels and demons were actually early mutants. Though as your standard FantasyKitchenSink, the Franchise/MarvelUniverse also has ''real'' angels and demons.

to:

** ''ComicBook/XMen'': {{Mutants}} have been [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy various important personages]] throughout history and have been around since the dawn of the Egyptian civilization at least. Try crucifying Wolverine and stuffing him in a cave for a couple of days and act surprised when he comes back to life. Also, during the ''Comicbook/HouseOfM'' ''ComicBook/HouseOfM'' storyline, a teacher asks who the first mutant was... "and don't say Jesus, since he doesn't count".[[note]]Technically, the teacher in House of M said not to mention Jesus or Moses because she was looking for the first mutant to be recorded historically. She leaves plenty of openings for them to be poorly documented Mutants.[[/note]] Interestingly enough, a few modern storylines subvert this by revealing that some angels and demons were actually early mutants. Though as your standard FantasyKitchenSink, the Franchise/MarvelUniverse also has ''real'' angels and demons.



** Jesus was actually, canonically, the real deal in the DC-verse; he's part of the backstory of Comicbook/TheSpectre, who serves as an agent of God's Divine Wrath in the form of The Spirit of Vengeance. He was absent at the time of Jesus for the specific reason that Jesus was the Spirit of Forgiveness and the Lord did not want the two of them on Earth at the same time, as it would seem like he was sending mixed messages.

to:

** Jesus was actually, canonically, the real deal in the DC-verse; he's part of the backstory of Comicbook/TheSpectre, ComicBook/TheSpectre, who serves as an agent of God's Divine Wrath in the form of The Spirit of Vengeance. He was absent at the time of Jesus for the specific reason that Jesus was the Spirit of Forgiveness and the Lord did not want the two of them on Earth at the same time, as it would seem like he was sending mixed messages.



* This taboo once derailed an entire comic book story arc. Writer/artist Rick Veitch was working on a storyline in ''Comicbook/SwampThing'' (after Creator/AlanMoore's famous run) where the title character was falling backwards through time, and encountering both real historical figures and DC characters of the past. The plan was to culminate the story during the time of Jesus (usually obliquely called "The Nazarene" in the DC Universe). Swamp Thing himself was to take the role of an angel who gives Jesus a drink of water on his way to Calvary. And yes, the story was going to reveal that The Nazarene was, yes, a wizard, no different from ComicBook/DoctorFate or Comicbook/{{Zatanna}} or the other mystical characters in the DC Universe. DC management popped a head-gasket and killed the story long after it had received official approval, so Veitch and his collaborators quit, and the story was never resolved.

to:

* This taboo once derailed an entire comic book story arc. Writer/artist Rick Veitch was working on a storyline in ''Comicbook/SwampThing'' ''ComicBook/SwampThing'' (after Creator/AlanMoore's famous run) where the title character was falling backwards through time, and encountering both real historical figures and DC characters of the past. The plan was to culminate the story during the time of Jesus (usually obliquely called "The Nazarene" in the DC Universe). Swamp Thing himself was to take the role of an angel who gives Jesus a drink of water on his way to Calvary. And yes, the story was going to reveal that The Nazarene was, yes, a wizard, no different from ComicBook/DoctorFate or Comicbook/{{Zatanna}} ComicBook/{{Zatanna}} or the other mystical characters in the DC Universe. DC management popped a head-gasket and killed the story long after it had received official approval, so Veitch and his collaborators quit, and the story was never resolved.



** {{ComicBook/Plastic Man}} once tried to convince a child that Santa was real by telling him the story of an adventure he shared with the Justice League. The kid becomes skeptical when Plas gives Saint Nick HeatVision, but both are flabbergasted when Santa flies by their window and uses said heat vision to write Merry Christmas in the snow. It's actually {{ComicBook/Martian Manhunter}} trolling them but as he flies off the ''real'' Santa is revealed to be watching.

to:

** {{ComicBook/Plastic Man}} ComicBook/PlasticMan once tried to convince a child that Santa was real by telling him the story of an adventure he shared with the Justice League. The kid becomes skeptical when Plas gives Saint Nick HeatVision, but both are flabbergasted when Santa flies by their window and uses said heat vision to write Merry Christmas in the snow. It's actually {{ComicBook/Martian Manhunter}} ComicBook/MartianManhunter trolling them but as he flies off the ''real'' Santa is revealed to be watching.



* In ''Series/LegendsOfTomorrow'' when the Legends are trying to stop the LegionOfDoom abusing the [[PublicDomainArtifact Spear of Destiny]], it's suggested that since it was created with the blood of Christ it could also be destroyed with it. Sara attempts to simply go back to the Crucifixion and steal the blood from Christs body but Rip gives her a BigNo and tells her the crucifixion is somewhere a time traveler can never go.

to:

* In ''Series/LegendsOfTomorrow'' when the Legends are trying to stop the LegionOfDoom abusing the [[PublicDomainArtifact Spear of Destiny]], it's suggested that since it was created with the blood of Christ it could also be destroyed with it. Sara attempts to simply go back to the Crucifixion and steal the blood from Christs Christ's body but Rip gives her a BigNo and tells her the crucifixion is somewhere a time traveler can never go.



* In ''Comicbook/TheAuthority'' it's very heavily implied that Jesus was one of the people that held the title of The Doctor (not [[Series/DoctorWho that one]]). The previous Doctors also confirm that (as far as they know) the Christian God does not exist.
** ''[[Comicbook/{{Stormwatch}} Stormwatch Team Achilles]]'' confronted this head-on. After an encounter with an alleged Merovingian descendant of Christ:
--> ''BARAK: But we just saw him bring a dead man back to life. It was more than a bit reminiscent of Lazarus.''\\

to:

* In ''Comicbook/TheAuthority'' ''ComicBook/TheAuthority'' it's very heavily implied that Jesus was one of the people that held the title of The Doctor (not [[Series/DoctorWho that one]]). The previous Doctors also confirm that (as far as they know) the Christian God does not exist.
** ''[[Comicbook/{{Stormwatch}} ''[[ComicBook/{{Stormwatch}} Stormwatch Team Achilles]]'' confronted this head-on. After an encounter with an alleged Merovingian descendant of Christ:
--> ---> ''BARAK: But we just saw him bring a dead man back to life. It was more than a bit reminiscent of Lazarus.''\\



* Not quite a "Jesus was one of us"-type thing, but ''Comicbook/PS238'' has healer Vern managing to bring a recently-deceased [[spoiler: Guardian Angel]] back to life. When the teachers discover what's happened, they realize they have to keep it under wraps because there would be global upset if the knowledge of a "Messiah-level" healer was made public.

to:

* Not quite a "Jesus was one of us"-type thing, but ''Comicbook/PS238'' ''ComicBook/PS238'' has healer Vern managing to bring a recently-deceased [[spoiler: Guardian Angel]] back to life. When the teachers discover what's happened, they realize they have to keep it under wraps because there would be global upset if the knowledge of a "Messiah-level" healer was made public.



* In ''FanFic/AHistoryOfMagic'' Jesus is clearly stated to have been an Anomaly, a human whose latent magical abilities awakened independently of contracting with [[Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica Incubators]].

to:

* In ''FanFic/AHistoryOfMagic'' ''Fanfic/AHistoryOfMagic'' Jesus is clearly stated to have been an Anomaly, a human whose latent magical abilities awakened independently of contracting with [[Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica Incubators]].



* One episode of ''Series/AgentsOfShield'' set after the events of ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'' had the main characters talking about how the Norse gods turned out to be {{Sufficiently Advanced Alien}}s and speculating if any other deities, such as the Hindu gods, where also aliens.

to:

* One episode of ''Series/AgentsOfShield'' set after the events of ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'' had the main characters talking about how the Norse gods turned out to be {{Sufficiently Advanced Alien}}s and speculating if any other deities, such as the Hindu gods, where were also aliens.



*** In the next game there's even a scene where the games resident [[DefectorFromDecadence Token Tevinter team member]] becomes very distraught because he did think that it was all just superstition, only to find out that no, his people in fact almost did bring about the end of the world.

to:

*** In the next game there's even a scene where the games game's resident [[DefectorFromDecadence Token Tevinter team member]] becomes very distraught because he did think that it was all just superstition, only to find out that no, his people in fact almost did bring about the end of the world.



* Played with in ''VideoGame/{{Touhou}}'': On one hand, most characters don't know of Christianity (which makes sense in the setting) and ask questions such as "who is that?" when Jesus is brought up, though they actually don't seem to particularily care who he was. On the other hand, the one character who ''does'' talk about Christianity is a "[[TheHeretic Wicked]] [[HermitGuru Hermit]]" who dresses up as Santa Claus and leaves presents for children but also [[BadSanta steals valuable stuff from the places she visits]] as payment for said gifts. On top of that, said Hermit also considers the feats of Jesus completely unimpressive and thinks that [[BlasphemousPraise her student resurrecting from a 1,000 year long death is much grander]] than the resurrection "that prophet" pulled off a few measly days after his execution.

to:

* Played with in ''VideoGame/{{Touhou}}'': ''Franchise/TouhouProject'': On one hand, most characters don't know of Christianity (which makes sense in the setting) and ask questions such as "who is that?" when Jesus is brought up, though they actually don't seem to particularily care who he was. On the other hand, the one character who ''does'' talk about Christianity is a "[[TheHeretic Wicked]] [[HermitGuru Hermit]]" who dresses up as Santa Claus and leaves presents for children but also [[BadSanta steals valuable stuff from the places she visits]] as payment for said gifts. On top of that, said Hermit also considers the feats of Jesus completely unimpressive and thinks that [[BlasphemousPraise her student resurrecting from a 1,000 year long death is much grander]] than the resurrection "that prophet" pulled off a few measly days after his execution.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The writer of ''The Son Of Dracula'' once got in an argument with the head of UsefulNotes/TheComicsCode over whether Christians would be offended if he put in a reference to the book's main character being powerless inside a church (both the writer and the head of UsefulNotes/TheComicsCode were Jewish).

to:

* The writer of ''The Son Of Dracula'' once got in an argument with the head of UsefulNotes/TheComicsCode MediaNotes/TheComicsCode over whether Christians would be offended if he put in a reference to the book's main character being powerless inside a church (both the writer and the head of UsefulNotes/TheComicsCode MediaNotes/TheComicsCode were Jewish).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None





* ''TabletopGame/GURPSBanestorm'': Most people believe that God's power is qualitatively different from magic. The Catholic Church is thus very careful when making saints, since they have to make a distinction between miracles and spells (even raising the dead just requires a skilled necromancer).

to:

* ''TabletopGame/GURPSBanestorm'': ''TabletopGame/{{Banestorm}}'': Most people believe that God's power is qualitatively different from magic. The Catholic Church is thus very careful when making saints, since they have to make a distinction between miracles and spells (even raising the dead just requires a skilled necromancer).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
General clarification on work content


* ''Literature/Area51'': Although some Airlia in the past presented themselves as gods and sacred artifacts like the Ark of the Covenant were actually just their technology, no one suggests Jesus (nor Buddha or Muhammed etc.) were just disguised aliens or their brainwashed servants, even though they're shown to set up a religion which worships them, and others are formed on their own. This was likely to avoid backlash.

to:

* ''Literature/Area51'': Although some It's strongly {{implied}} that Moses (and [[Literature/BookOfExodus the Exodus events]] generally) was really connected to the aliens somehow. Jesus is also implied to maybe have survived death with Airlia in the past presented themselves technology as gods and sacred artifacts like the Ark of the Covenant were actually just their technology, no one suggests Jesus (nor Buddha or Muhammed etc.) were just disguised aliens or their brainwashed servants, even well, though they're shown to set up a religion which worships them, and others are formed on their own. This was likely to avoid backlash.it's left uncertain.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** On the other hand, Buddhism has been able to co-exist with theistic religions, usually by holding that while the gods exist, the gods themselves are on the same reincarnation cycle, being ones who are really close to Englightenment but got distracted to be gods. While other deities chose not to proceed to nirvana but stay behind and help others achieve it.

to:

** On the other hand, Buddhism has been able to co-exist with theistic religions, usually by holding that while the gods exist, the gods themselves are on the same reincarnation cycle, being ones who are really close to Englightenment Enlightenment but got distracted to be gods. While other deities chose not to proceed to nirvana but stay behind and help others achieve it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* "Series/{{Supernatural}}" gets around this by simply not mentioning Jesus at all. In a world where God, Satan, Demons, Angels, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, the Bible, the Apocalypse, the Four Horsemen and a plethora of non-Judeo-Christian gods all exist, no one has ever asked in eleven seasons "Where is Jesus in all of this?" Not even the angels who have been looking for [[DisappearedDad God]] for over six seasons.

to:

* "Series/{{Supernatural}}" ''Series/{{Supernatural}}'' gets around this by simply not mentioning Jesus at all. In a world where God, Satan, Demons, Angels, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, the Bible, the Apocalypse, the Four Horsemen and a plethora of non-Judeo-Christian gods all exist, no one has ever asked in eleven seasons "Where is Jesus in all of this?" Not even the angels who have been looking for [[DisappearedDad God]] for over six seasons.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The [[HolyGrail Urn of Sacred Ashes]] can restore the dying to perfect health with just a pinch of Andraste's ashes. This could be the Maker acting in the world...or it could be because the Urn has rested for centuries on a giant vein of lyrium.
** [[JeanneDArchetype Leliana]] receives a vision of the Grey Warden's coming, prompting her to join up with him/her. It could have been a message from the Maker...or it could have just been a lucky hallucination. When she describes the vision it's incredibly vague, she just interpreted it that way.

to:

** The [[HolyGrail Urn of Sacred Ashes]] can restore the dying to perfect health with just a pinch of Andraste's ashes. This could be the Maker acting in the world... or it could be because the Urn has rested for centuries on a giant vein of lyrium.
** [[JeanneDArchetype Leliana]] receives a vision of the Grey Warden's coming, prompting her to join up with him/her. It could have been a message from the Maker... or it could have just been a lucky hallucination. When she describes the vision it's incredibly vague, she just interpreted it that way.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Manga/FullmetalAlchemist'': Nothing has indicated Christianity has ever existed, though there's still local religious milieu with monotheistic beliefs. Alchemy may be related to the generally secular tone of Amestrian society. Fuehrer King Bradley is something of a militant atheist, which given his...family background...is understandable.\\

to:

* ''Manga/FullmetalAlchemist'': Nothing has indicated Christianity has ever existed, though there's still local religious milieu with monotheistic beliefs. Alchemy may be related to the generally secular tone of Amestrian society. Fuehrer King Bradley is something of a militant atheist, which given his... family background...background... is understandable.\\

Top