Thread created as a spin-off of an Ask The Tropers thread.
There have been some recurring problems when it comes to how to refer to a character due to them being potentially transgender, such as Yamato or Snapdragon, or has other circumstances that make their gender identity/pronouns unclear. While in the past each character has gotten their own dedicated thread, the latest problem when it comes to how to interpreted Bridget has raised an opinion that there should be more of a general thread discussing these topics in case any future problems come up. Preferably we should discuss one character at a time before moving up to the next character.
Queries about references to a character's deadname are also on-topic here.
Spoilers in the thread must be tagged.
As a rule of thumb, using they/them in cases where the character's gender is unclear is acceptable.
If someone disregards consensus that was established here, particularly if a character is clearly trans and someone is trying to deny that, it's something to report on Ask The Tropers rather than here.
Spoilers in this "Resolved characters" folder are unmarked.
- General policy on characters who reincarnate/gain new bodies, and have their gender change when they do so (in specific, Eternals (2021), Doctor Who): When discussing a particular incarnation/body, use the pronouns the work and its characters used for the character in that form. When a character has used different pronouns at different times (e.g. for different incarnations), default to they/them pronouns if discussing the character overall. Discussion begins here.
- A from Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Intentionally not addressed by pronouns, use the name A. Discussion begins here
- Acht/Dedf1sh from Splatoon: They/them. Discussion begins here.
- Apep from Genshin Impact: It/its. Discussion begins here.
- Arval from Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes: They/them. Discussion begins here
- Baron Ashura from Mazinger Z: They/them pronouns for their appearance in Super Robot Wars. Discussion begins here.
- Bedman? from Guilty Gear: It/its. Discussion begins here.
- Blitzcrank from League of Legends: They/them pronouns. Discussion begins here.
- Bridget from Guilty Gear: Confirmed to be a trans woman and uses she/her pronouns. Discussion begins in this discussion page thread, then continues in this Ask the Tropers query followed by the first post of this thread.
- Buzam A. "BC" Calessa from Vandread: She/her. Discussion begins here.
- Candy Caramella from Space Goofs: He/him in the original cartoon, she/her when referring to the version of Candy in the spin-off game Stupid Invaders. Discussion begins here.
- Cheese from Sonic the Hedgehog: He/him when referring to the version in the video games, they/them for the version in the IDW comics. Discussion begins here.
- Cho'gath from League of Legends: Both he/him and it/its are fine, as long as the pronoun used is consistent within a given example. Discussion begins here.
- Claude from Claudine: He/him. Discussion begins here.
- Dragona from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: He/him until more information is given. Discussion begins here.
- Enkidu from Fate Series: They/them. Discussion begins here.
- F.F. from Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Stone Ocean: They/them pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- FLUDD from Super Mario Sunshine: It/its pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- Funtime Foxy from Five Nights at Freddy's: Intentionally Ambiguous Gender; he/she pronouns. Discussion starts here and continues here.
- Gabriela from Como dice el dicho: She/her, use the name Gabriela. Discussion begins here.
- Gala Laxi from Dragalia Lost: They/them when referring to the combined entity of Laxi and Mascula. She/her when referring to just Laxi, he/him when referring to just Mascula. Discussion begins here.
- Gozer from Ghostbusters (1984): They/them. Discussion starts here.
- Gwyndolin from Dark Souls: He/him pronouns. Discussion begins here.
- Hassan of Intoxicated Smoke from Fate/Grand Order: He/him pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- Heather Swanson from South Park: "She/her" pronouns (Scare Quotes included). Discussion starts here and continues here.
- Hibari from Stop Hibari Kun: She/her pronouns.
- Juniper from Xenoblade Chronicles 3: They/them pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- Kris from Deltarune: They/them pronouns, and is to be treated as nonbinary unless otherwise stated. This decision was made in this thread.
- Lambert from Cult of the Lamb: They/them. Discussion starts here
- Lor from Borderlands: He/him, use the name Lor. Discussion begins here.
- Mangle from Five Nights at Freddy's: Intentionally Ambiguous Gender; he/she pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- Mordred from Fate Series: She/her, with an Ambiguous Gender Identity entry. Discussion starts here.
- Morpheus Duvall from Resident Evil: Dead Aim: They/them on the Resident Evil - Umbrella Corporation character page. Discussion begins here.
- Omochao from Sonic the Hedgehog: They/them. Discussion begins here.
- Osana Najimi from Komi Can't Communicate: They/them pronouns. Discussion begins here.
- Pamela Incu from Welcome to Demon School! Iruma-kun: He/him. Discussion begins here.
- Phantom Mangle from Five Nights at Freddy's: Intentionally Ambiguous Gender; he/she pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- Prized Isshin Blade from Genshin Impact: He/him. Discussion begins here
- Pokémon in general from Pokémon: Gendered pronouns when discussing a specific individual Pokémon, it/its when discussing a Pokémon species in general. Discussion begins here, is continued here.
- La Pucelle from Magical Girl Raising Project: He/him in civilian form, she/her when transformed into a magical girl. Discussion begins here.
- Snapdragon from High Guardian Spice: They/them pronouns. This decision was made in this thread via crowner.
- Stella Lulu from Magical Girl Raising Project: He/him in civilian form, she/her when transformed into a magical girl. Discussion begins here.
- Sui from Campfire Cooking in Another World with My Absurd Skill: It/its. Discussion begins here.
- Takatsuki from Wandering Son: He/him except for when discussing the end of the manga beneath spoiler tags. In that case, she/her. Discussion begins here
- Terri from Amphibia: They/them. Discussion begins here
- Thailand from Scandinavia and the World: They/them, per what's used on this official FAQ page.
- The Toaster from The Brave Little Toaster: He/him pronouns. This decision was made in this thread.
- Topa from The Orville: she/her outside Recap pages, pronouns at time of episode on Recap. Discussion begins here.
- Vennia from Cafe Enchante: Both he/him and they/them are fine, as long as the pronoun used is consistent within a given example. Discussion begins here.
- The vessels (the Knight, the Hollow Knight, the Broken Vessel, and the other void siblings) from Hollow Knight: It/its. Discussion begins here, is continued here.
- Vivian from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door: She/her pronouns. Due to Adaptational Gender Identity, whether she's transgender or cisgender depends on the localization. Discussion begins here.
- Yamato from One Piece: He/him pronouns. This decision was decided in this thread via crowner.
- Yena from Seton Academy: Join the Pack!: He/him pronouns. Discussion begins here.
Edited by Bisected8 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 1:16:38 PM
Since it's separate continuities, I would say use pronouns that pertain to whichever work you're describing per entry. If it's an entry that describes both characters and not referencing any specific events, I'm torn — one could go with the original work's pronouns since it's the first one to establish the trope, or go with "they" since it's gender-neutral anyway.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.The character's so consistently being referred to as he/him by the producers in interviews released today even when they seem to be teasing that he's non-binary that I'm starting to think that his pronouns are not changing, as they're saying a lot of stuff about how he will learn to accept himself for who he really is in a really supportive way where it would be weird to refer to him incorrectly. Sorry for a bunch of confusion about nothing lol. It really was a genuine question as to whether we should soon transition to using new pronouns for (basically confirmed now down to John Tartaglia describing the scene where he comes out to Gobo, so I believe I can say his name) Wembley based on the leaks, but, while I could be proven wrong in 4 days, he seems to be a he/him enby.
Edit: Based on what I was just told, uhh... we'll still wait and see.
Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Mar 25th 2024 at 6:28:00 AM
She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqkFor whatever reason, I have the ability to stream the new Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock season 2 hours before midnight even though it technically isn't Friday yet. I've only watched the first episode so far, and I'm trying to keep myself unspoiled so I don't know how soon or late into the season Wembley comes out, but I'll keep you guys posted. If this isn't just a "me" fluke, feel free to investigate yourself.
She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqkAppreciate the updates, but I think you'll complicate matters less if you just wait until you've seen the episode to clarify things, since nobody seemed aware of the leak until you brought it up (and we couldn't discuss its contents anyway) and it may end up being a non-issue if he still uses he/him anyway.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Just watched the episode and I... don't know their pronouns? They are weirdly not referred to by their pronouns at any point after coming out. This question is plaguing the Muppet Wiki right now too, so we may have to wait for someone to finish the season. The canon foreigner that was also leaked to come out as non-binary, however, does explicitly go by they/them. I'm off to, at the moment, at least correct Pogey's pronouns on all pages.
Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Mar 28th 2024 at 1:48:30 PM
She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqkOn... all pages? Even the ones referring to the character before the reboot?
Do you see why I advocated for a split?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure PurenessPogey is a Canon Foreigner. They never appeared in anything until Back to the Rock.
Anyways, I've been told on the Discord that Wembley still goes by he/him, and that that's why the Fraggle fandom is so much more focused on correcting Pogey's pronouns than Wembley's. I'm inclined to believe them because for what is essentially Wembley's gender dysphoria song, the creatures giving the back up vocals are asking "who is he?", and, while he hasn't come out yet, it would be extremely awkward to pull that in hindsight. Sorry for the confusion, everyone. Feel like I wasted a bunch of time.
Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Mar 28th 2024 at 2:14:35 PM
She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqkGenerally it's probably a good idea to wait until an episode is officially viewable in some regard before asking for consensus, since most of us won't have context and we try not to discuss leaks publicly.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Again, I seriously apologize. I started regretting even bringing it up but it was too late and I thought I had to keep giving updates.
She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqkA from Xenoblade Chronicles 3 appears to be described as androgynous nonbinary and is addressed by "A" exclusively both in-story and in marketing. Toffolus has changed all references to female, citing the source code and Official Artworks Aionios Moments, which to me feels like an insufficient reason. I don't know the work. Relevant ATT.
Edited by Amonimus on Apr 3rd 2024 at 12:42:00 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupI was directed here from Ask The Tropers. Thread here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=133124&type=att
The short version is that a user decided that A is female and unilaterally changed A's pronouns based on an art book that contains some inaccuracies and concepts that didn’t make it to the game. They also did a bit of mini modding in the edit reasons.
The game goes out of their way to not use any pronouns for A, and has another character walk up to the screen and say A is between male and female. I think that trumps an art book, which admittedly refers to A as a woman.
What do you guys think?
Edit: Ninja'd
Edited by PresidentBrit on Apr 3rd 2024 at 10:42:19 AM
TV Tropes ruined Faust's lifeI'm inclined to go with the game here. A being nonbinary is an actual plot point: they're meant to serve as an "inbetween" for the male Logos and female Pneuma, and thus not fully either gender. Rex outright says as much and A does not disagree with this statement. I could believe them being feminine-leaning from their appearance (and to contrast their counterpart, the masculine Alpha), but they explicitly aren't female and the game very deliberately avoids using pronouns when referring to them.
(I am admittedly a little biased, as you might tell from A being my avatar, but still.)
Edited by TheGrayFox on Apr 3rd 2024 at 4:02:45 AM
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.Agreed, it doesn't make sense. The game deliberately avoided using gendered pronouns for A, so sticking to they/them for A.
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/ADoes the game use "they/them" or always "A"?
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupThey use A or write in a specific way to avoid pronouns. There is one NPC that refers to A as "it", but that is one piece of dialogue in the whole game.
TV Tropes ruined Faust's lifeDoes "A from Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Intentionally not addressed by pronouns, use the name A." sound fine? If the game avoids using "they", I feel we should as well, and the wiki page used to follow so.
Edited by Amonimus on Apr 4th 2024 at 9:27:58 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupHas the book been fully translated regarded A? I feel like that would be important, to see if they address this. And to be clear, Rex's explanation was in answer to Shulk asking A "why do you look like that?" given they look so different from Alvis. Rex proceeds to explain how Ontos was designed to be somewhere in between the male Logos and female Pneuma. The discussion seemed to focus on what A physically looked like, rather than specifically about how A identified or what sex they were. I also find it odd that if A was intended to be nonbinary that they would not be such in the game's code, when the game outright has a code for nonbinary characters. That's my take on it, I'm not invested either way but I do think this book should be regarded as a canon source given a major part of it is the developers answering fan questions regarding unclear things from the game.
Edited by Perentie on Apr 3rd 2024 at 7:12:31 AM
i seriously doubt that the art book is even gendering A in the first place. Japanese as a language doesn't gender people very often unless the character themselves uses an explicitly male/female pronoun. and even then it's context dependent and someone using a feminine pronouns doesn't necessarily identify as female.
the art book has been out for maybe two days and i highly doubt it's been anything more than machine translated- which is notorious for not translating things completely properly and cannot understand context. i also don't think it's getting an english translation, which also makes it not reliable as a source to suddenly change all of A's pronouns.
and at that matter, a quick google search turns up nothing in terms of A being nonbinary suddenly being non-canon, and as someone who follows a LOT of xenoblade artists and community members i think i would have encountered this on my own from any sort of reliable source.
A is never referred to with pronouns in game. Rex literally turns to the screen and says that A is non-binary.
edit: after some further research it does appear that twitter user @Xeno_Mira states that "A is referred to as a woman in the character introduction section for Future Redeemed.". That is the only seemingly reliable source i can find on the matter. i still believe that the game takes precedence, and the source material translation being a higher priority than untranslated side material has been well established on this thread.
the.. eagerness of which Toffolus changed all of A's pronouns does make me worry that the user is editing with a transphobic agenda.
Edited by EpicBleye on Apr 3rd 2024 at 10:47:55 AM
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-MaeThe art book also says Nikol and Glimmer are 9th Term (18 years old) when they're clearly 10th Term (19 years old) in the game note . Glimmer makes a bigger deal about her age than A does about gender identity.
Guess what was left unchanged?
TV Tropes ruined Faust's lifeI am once again asking how to handle Ayunosuke, a character whose true gender is a last-episode spoiler. Use they/them? Spoiler tags on pronouns?
Oissu!When in doubt,just use their name,or they/them
New theme music also a boxwe have precedent for using they/them even if the work itself avoids using pronouns altogether — for example, our page on The Order of the Stick refers to V as "they/them". Its just a lot easier to avoid pronouns in some formats, like comics, than on a wiki character page
Edited by Tremmor19 on Apr 3rd 2024 at 2:13:44 PM
The work calls her he/him until the reveal, after which it's she/her. I guess they/them works, but it would tip someone off to there being some kind of reveal of her gender.
Oissu!oh, sorry, i missed the last post and was still taking about A
if it's a spoiler, use the non-spoiler version as the main pronoun. In some cases we've put Spoiler Alert on the character folder, and then use the correct pronoun in inside the character folder
I won't go into specifics like which character, but now that this review from Laughing Place directly confirms that one of the characters has an arc of realizing they're non-binary, I think I'm safe to name the upcoming work: Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. Characters.Fraggle Rock is used for both original and reboot despite having separate continuities, with little issue so far up until potentially now. (The other character involved is a Canon Foreigner not from the original, so unlike the other character a change of pronouns won't be an issue).
Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Mar 25th 2024 at 3:52:32 PM
She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk