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Ask the Tropers:
openIs this enough caution that it's not edit warring
Is creating a discussion thread and giving them an opportunity to respond enough? Or if they don't, do I need to DM them and push them to reply? That feels rude on another level, like, "I need you to admit you were wrong!"
Edited by EievieopenWhere would these go?
So, I found this on YMMV.Wicked:
- Spiritual Adaptation: While there will be a forthcoming film adaptation of the book and the musical that will eventually be released, there have been at least three movies made by Disney in 2013 that some strong parallels to the story no less:
- Maleficent is basically Wicked with the titular character and the Moors Kingdom as stand-ins for Elpehba and the Land of Oz.
- Oz the Great and Powerful, just like Wicked, is also an origin story for an important character in the Oz mythos, in this case Oscar Diggs, though we do see the birth of the Wicked Witch of the West. Just not how you'd expect it.
- Frozen (2013) is a big-budget Animated Adaptation of Wicked with even Idina Menzel starring as an emotionally conflicted sorceress who lives alone in a castle.
- More recently, Wish (2023) has its heroine Asha live in a seeming utopia overseen by a powerful, flashy wizard who considers making her his apprentice until she learns that he is hoarding most of the wishes of his adoring people and only magically granting (in a lottery system) ones that don't have any potential to threaten his rule, and objects to this, earning his enmity. When she ends up with a star's magic on her side and sets out to free the kingdom's wishes, he claims to his people that she is a traitor and encourages her capture. (Interestingly, said star magic grants animals sentience and speech, inverting how the Wizard's acts rob Talking Animals of such.)
Doesn't Spiritual Adaptation entries go on the well Spiritual Adaptation's YMMV page and not the one they are spiritually adapting? Should I move these or keep them where they are? Also shouldn't they be moved to Spiritual Successor since Spiritual Adaptation is now just a redirect?
Edited by BullmanopenAddition to Idiot Plot
I want to add the bolded to the locked page Idiot Plot, asking here for thoughts before taking to the Locked Pages thread.
See also World of Dumbass for settings where (nearly) everyone is intended to be an idiot. Compare Just Eat Gilligan for when everyone's guilty of the single idiocy of ignoring something that could resolve the plot. See also Fourth Wall Myopia - when the audience fails to recognise the difference between themselves and the characters. You may have seen the Obviously Evil person twirling their mustache at the camera, but the characters who get fooled did not.
Also wondering if World of Dumbass covering intentional examples means the Idiot Plot page should be revised, and also why the page is locked while other Flame Bait pages that also disallow any on or off page examples aren't.
Thoughts?
resolved Angry comments in review replies
In this review, Boondocks 96 has been making angry comments attacking others and refusing to stop when told it isn't helpful.
resolved New troper adding info about a seemingly non-existent work
Mixi's only edits on the wiki pertain to some series called "Countryballs" that doesn't seem to exist. Googling "Countryballs" only brings up an internet meme and artstyle of the same name that apparently dated back to 2009, despite the fourth season of the show airing in January 2024, according to this page.
I'm trying to get confirmation on whether this show even exists, because if it doesn't, then the edits belong on Darth Wiki under Unpublished Works, not the main wiki.
openUser with problematic wonk over vtuber drama, and especially complaining about Nijisanji
As pointed out just earlier today, there was a random entry on VestigialEmpire/RealLife added a month ago by the troper WM-R that was just an extensive rant against Nijisanji, discussing all the backstage/corporate drama about the company and the handling of its talents. Because this was such blatant misuse I went to check and see if the original writer has demonstrated similar behavior in other pages, and it appears this does seem to be a pattern, especially within the last month:
- Multi-bullet-point rants about Nijisanji and Brave Group Incorporated in Abusive Workplace to discuss their real-life business controversies, in violation of the "real life examples must be at least 5 years old" rule (which frankly, that still sounds too generous for that trope).
- They also added Abusive Workplace onto the Nijisanji page itself.
- EDIT: It has also been pointed out that WM-R originally came up with and launched the trope earlier this year. It appears that they never actually had a consensus on whether the trope counted for "no recent examples" and "no real life examples" despite there being concerns about both, and after the page went live, they added in various "sneak-edits" of further documenting vtuber company drama with "do not make public until 5 years from now" notices, so it doesn't even sound like they were even respecting their own rule.
- Adding in many entries about vtuber graduations/identity changes to Open Secret, most of which were removed as per consensus in the respective cleanup thread as being in violation of real-life troping, only for them to partly add back in some content without consulting the thread on the matter (despite them participating in it earlier).
- Making excessive additions to Pop-Culture Isolation discussing Nijisanji, with very pointed focus on blaming the company for "enforcing" isolation because of its bad practices, while adding in a seemingly irrelevant paragraph about how hololive "avoids" it.
- Making an entry about the Hololive vs. Nijisanji rivalry in Quantity vs. Quality. While technically not an incorrect use of the trope as far as I can tell, it still reads as unnecessary and is reflective of a lot of the OP's anti-Nijisanji rhetoric.
- A lot of various entries on Culture Clash ranting more about Nijisanji's business practices and how badly they mishandled one particular vtuber in specific, admitted at the very start to be largely speculative ("It's strongly suspected that...") with only minor focus on them being a result of actual cultural divides.
- A lot of entries on YMMV/Nijisanji about its various workplace allegations and controversies, most of which are written to skirt around YMMV guidelines, including inappropriate uses of Never Live It Down (which were since taken down as per cleanup thread in violation of "no recent examples")
- They added most vtuber entries onto Unperson/RealLife since February. While technically not incorrect usage, some of these entries are really freaking long and go into a lot of personal detail and speculation (talking about how one person crying as a result of a genmate being retired, or how fans got angry of a vtuber being retired, are completely unnecessary to the point), and the Nijisanji entries naturally read as very biased and trying to emphasize as being "drama".
- Also just in general violating a lot of real-life troping rules that would be insensitive even if it wasn't a vtuber (none of the tropes in question warrant focus on someone's suicide attempt, especially since it's never been actually confirmed and just sounds like gossip, in addition to being weirdly invasive).
I know we have a dedicated vtuber cleanup thread, but this user in particular has added such bad juju regarding vtuber drama across the wiki; can something be done about this?
Edited by number9roboticopenIs the "Car Accident Labor" trope prominent enough to deserve a page of its own? Live Action TV
I've noticed in many crime shows there always seems to be one episode in which a woman goes into labor during a car accident. Think about it: what could be more stressful than a car accident? A car accident involving a woman. What could possibly be even more stressful than a car accident involving a woman? A car accident involving a woman in labor. It's like some crutch double-whammy. Perhaps it's just me being a snide shithead but I find it incredibly obnoxious.
To get to the main point: I was reading the https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PregnancyTropes page and I think something like that could have a place there, as I was surprised to *not* find such a thing.
EDIT: I (a newb) can't figure out the markdown syntax on here, forgive me.
Edited by middigmgsxgopenMoving from Work to Recap pages
I've been preparing to create recap pages for the Walking with… series, and wanted to make sure I was doing the move right. My game plan was that when a trope with multiple episode entries is present, like so:
- Trope:
- In Episode 1...
- In Episode 2...
- In Episode 3...
I copy over the relevant entries but leave the original entry be as it is technically a series-wide trope, but when it's specific to an episode like so:
- Trope 1: In Episode 3...
- Trope 2: In Episode 1...
- Trope 3: In Episode 5...
I move them and cut the originals on the main page in order to avoid redundancy and potential confusion about what goes where.
Does that make sense?
openDeadlink example
While looking at the "I Want Grandkids" trope and finishing the job of sorting the "Fan works" examples by parent series, I found one example was for a fic that has since been deleted from fanfiction dot net:
- Six Paths of Rebellion: A variant — Nunnally is quite insistent on Lelouch getting a girlfriend and giving her lots of nieces and nephews to spoil.
I've commented it out for now. However, I searched and found that a copy of the fic is being archived on "Archive Of Our Own" by a third party. Since it's nowhere near the chapter being linked to, should I just delete the example, or replace the link with the AO 3 one and remove the commented-out status (either now or when they get that far)?
Until next time...
Anon e Mouse Jr.
openPoorly explained removal of Anti-Climax Boss from YMMV.Luigi's Mansion 3 Videogame
On Jan 18, 2020, CookingCat added an example of King Boo to Luigi's Mansion 3 as an Anti-Climax Boss. They described the final boss as lackluster, having an unimpressive stage and moveset, and suffering from Fake Difficulty:
- Anticlimax Boss: King Boo. The fight itself feels very lackluster compared to his fights in the original Luigi's Mansion and Dark Moon, and especially compared to the Boss Ghosts guarding the other character portraits, simply taking place on the roof of the hotel and having a very mediocre moveset, which especially hurts considering his presence in the early game. It doesn't help that the fight is known for it's clunkiness, Fake Difficulty and lack of polish compared to many of the others before it, especially the difficulty of launching the bombs in his mouth due to the targeting being off, the strange perspective and short period of vulnerability before he begins attacking again, and the final phase of the fight is timed, which, combined with the long length of his attacks and aforementioned short period of vulnerability, makes it easy to lose via the time running out before you even get a chance to attack him.
On Apr 1, 2020, it was removed without any edit reason by Cman053. I was unaware of this prior edit history or CookingCat's original example.
A little more than a year later on Apr 20, 2021, after having just finished the game myself, I re-added King Boo as an Anti-Climax Boss. While I never saw CookingCat's writeup, my own writeup incidentally echoed several of their criticisms, such as King Boo feeling lackluster in comparison to his previous fights in the series as well as earlier bosses within the same game; the fight's main "challenge" coming from trying to awkwardly aim a projectile; and spending much of the battle waiting for the boss to cycle through long attack patterns until he finally becomes vulnerable again. I also added the fact that it's a "Feed It a Bomb Three Times" boss battle that is an incredibly generic Nintendo boss formula not fitting a final boss, and the lack of a unique Game Over should the time limit run out (unlike, say, Metroid Dread) making it feel all the more anticlimactic in presentation:
- Anti-Climax Boss: After the challenging and puzzling but fairly enjoyable Hellen Gravely penultimate boss fight immediately beforehand, King Boo makes for a somewhat disappointing Final Boss. It's a fairly straightforward "Feed It a Bomb Three Times" boss battle that is more frustrating than challenging, stemming from the difficulty in aiming the bomb in King Boo's mouth. Even with King Boo spawning decoys and introducing harder attack patterns in each stage, it still ends up feeling repetitive as you're just waiting for King Boo to perform the same attacks until bombs spawn; unlike Dark Moon, there are no chase sequences to break up the battle and spice things up. Not even the time limit is enough to make it feel climactic, since there's no Non-Standard Game Over for letting time run out.
Additionally, King Boo was previously listed as an example of That One Boss by Drope. Since final bosses are exempt from That One Boss status and the example focused more on King Boo being frustrating and annoying instead of difficult, I moved that example to Goddamned Boss instead. It's still listed there as of now.
On Nov 17, 2023, Fireball246 removed King Boo's Anti-Climax Boss example with the following edit reason: "Ignoring the fact that I’ve seen plenty of people who really liked the fight against King Boo in this game, a lot of these point feel like petty criticisms of being bad at the game rather than the boss itself being “poorly designed” or anything. This all comes across as extremely subjective and definitely doesn’t deserve to be officially labeled as an Anti-Climax Boss." But this edit reason doesn't make sense?
- "Ignoring the fact that I’ve seen plenty of people who really liked the fight against King Boo in this game..." With a quick Google search, I've also seen plenty of people who really disliked the fight. The fact that King Boo was previously listed as an Anti-Climax Boss by another editor, is currently listed as a Goddamned Boss (previously That One Boss), and isn't listed among the Best Boss Ever entries on the same YMMV page shows that other TV Tropes editors feel the same about this boss.
- "...a lot of these point feel like petty criticisms of being bad at the game..." I'm definitely not a "pro gamer", but I beat King Boo on my first try with plenty of health and time left. My criticisms of the boss have nothing to do with supposedly "being bad at the game". If anything, I thought the boss was too easy if you strip away the janky aiming and the long waiting periods (both of which are criticized by other players), which adds to the boss being anticlimactic.
- "...rather than the boss itself being “poorly designed” or anything..." Again, the example focuses on King Boo being generic, repetitive, and full of waiting instead of being unique, exciting, and challenging. These are criticisms of the boss design itself, not the player's skill level.
- "This all comes across as extremely subjective..." This is YMMV, of course it's subjective. As long as it isn't a minority opinion or just flat-out factually incorrect, it's fair game.
I sent Fireball246 a "deleting YMMV" notifier on Friday, but although they've clearly been active on TV Tropes this weekend, they haven't responded or acknowledged the PM. Since I was the last one to add the Anti-Climax Boss example, I can't undo their removal (or re-add the example with greater emphasis on "anticlimax" rather than "frustrating") without edit warring. Please advise.
open A dinosaur example for Greater-Scope Villain
Are there any characters that are dinosaurs who serve as Greater-Scope Villains, besides Trinity in Dino Stalker or Mr. Ashland in the Dinosaur tv show?
open A dinosaur example for Hijacked by Ganon
Are there any dinosaur examples for Hijacked by Ganon besides Rexy for Jurassic Park: the game?
open A dinosaur example for Disc-One Final Boss
Are there any examples of a dinosaur being a Disc-One Final Boss besides Rexy for Jurassic Park, the Indominus Rex for season 1 of Camp Cretaceous or the Scorpius Rex for season 3 of Camp Cretaceous?
resolved No Title Videogame
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/Warhammer40000Mechanicus2018
I created this new page for Mechanicus(the video released in 2018) because I wanted to specifically refer to it as a video game of Warhammer 40,000 featuring the Adeptus Mechanicus. And it was also because the character page redirected to the tabletop character page https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Warhammer40000Mechanicus rather than a character page with tropes related to the video game characters only. So I created the new page and then I requested that https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/Warhammer40000Mechanicus be cut.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Warhammer40000Mechanicus2018 And now all the examples for the new character page are all gone =(
Edited by LordAraghastopenMarkedly different alternative cut has its own page- how to handle Headscratchers?
Zack Snyder's Justice League is a pretty unique (although I can't definitively say wholly unique) case of a work where there was an earlier version and a new one is subsequently released with a significantly different vision. However, some aspects of the plot remain consistent between the two versions. Therefore, you can read some headscratchers for 2017 and find they are also applicable to the Snyder Cut. What's best practice here? Do we anticipate that even someone who doesn't bother to watch 2017, but does watch the Snyder Cut, would go to 2017's page and see the relevant items of discussion? Or should we copy and paste them from 2017 into the Snyder Cut page?
openUpdates to Video Examples
How can I get a video example updated to add extra links. Like if I launch a trope via TLP that would fit it after the example was originally uploaded?
On Characters.Atelier Secret Series Main Characters, I saw that Tao Mongarten's Ryza 3 image is the same as his appearance in 2. However, I don't want to accidentally break any rules so I am asking if it is ok to remove the image.