Character pronoun and identity discussion

Not familiar with the character, but I'd say cut.

I say cut those tropes from his folder. He's a trans guy, so they don't apply to him.

I think I voted on the basis "he's a trans guy even though the narrative doesn't treat him as one", so there seems like an argument for keeping Ore Onna and The Lad-ette.

Depending on how the narrative frames him, those could be subverted tropes. I.E. he appears to be The Lad-ette but he turns out to be a guy.

good point. i havent seen this show so i dont know how the work presents it in this case, but it sounds like theres initially some ambiguity about whether the character is actually trans or just very tomboyish? In which case id say you could include those tropes as "subverted" or something

Edited by Tremmor19 on Mar 11th 2024 at 11:42:18 AM

Does anybody have thoughts on Montel from Big Mouth and Human Resources (2022)? The show used he/him for them early on when they were a baby (mostly when they were unborn), but they're established to not be given a gender at birth and continue using they/them when older. However, I've seen some tropers use he/him on their page and I think it's Viewer Gender Confusion (their gender is more clear in Human Resources but not everyone has seen that), but I conceded in the Ambiguous Gender Identity that people did use he/him for them very early on and I'd like to clarify in case I forgot anything from canon.

Personally I'd prefer to stick to they/them because the show does that for most of their screentime especially once they're not a baby anymore.

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 21st 2024 at 3:54:31 PM

if they/them is the most recent canon pronoun then you shoukd use that, yea

I've not seen the show, is there any more context available?

I'm inferring they're one of the human characters, so presumably the use of he/him was In-Universe unawareness?

Looking the character , Montel is not one of the human characters... and yikes did I forget how NSFW that show is.

Yes, Montel is a Hormone Monster and it's established that those species aren't born with a gender (though they have a penis) and can choose it when they're older. But when they're a teenager they still seem to use they/them, be referred to as "child" and not "son," etc.

The wiki says they're okay with he/him which I vaguely remember but not as much in later episodes. But since they never shut it down I suppose it could be okay to use he/they?

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 21st 2024 at 11:41:54 AM

I was told to bring my ATT about a reboot character with shared tropes from the original that may potentially come out as not cis here.

What work is this? The ATT doesn’t seem to say.

I'm guessing X-Men '97, but I'm not quite sure.

Too vague to make any specific rulings, but I believe in the case of something like X-Men '97, which is an explicit sequel series, we'd update character pages and references to match our current understanding of their gender identity with notes as to which releases the character came out or figured stuff out or whatever (i.e. 'in Guilty Gear Strive, Bridget had a heart-opening talk with Goldlewis and Ky, and she....'). If it's an explicitly new continuity, then we'd instead treat it as Adaptational Gender Identity or Gender Flip.

Edited by plaiceholda on Mar 23rd 2024 at 12:42:17 PM

Oh? Is this referring to Morph—who's already changed their pronouns changed from he/him to they/them—or a different character?

Edited by Arawn999 on Mar 23rd 2024 at 9:39:19 AM

It's partially leak material on the Discord I'm part of, which is why I'm not saying. It is NOT X-Men. I am happy to DM. Or if you just want me to share what work, without giving more context, I can. I'm on the verge of outright naming the work, but I'm waiting until I get a go-ahead. Note that the main issue is that we use the same character page for both continuities and many tropes overlap between both. There IS an official press image that hints at the leak, but just barely.

Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Mar 23rd 2024 at 1:16:01 PM

Our policy is that we don't trope content leaks, so until it's officially announced, we don't have to worry about it.

Alright, I'll be back next Friday.

If it's a separate continuity, it's a separate character. This is no different from, say, Starbuck being male in Battlestar Galactica (1978) and female in Battlestar Galactica (2003).

As I said though, the same character page is used for both continuities. I'll explain more next Friday, when, among other things, we'll even know if their pronouns change from he/him at all (what has been leaked is an arc where they realize they aren't cis, not the exact identity or pronouns).

Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Mar 23rd 2024 at 12:29:38 PM

Wouldn't it make more sense to split the page, then? It feels backwards to lump different continuities together.

A lot of character tropes overlap. Man, it's so hard not linking to the specific page. I'll DM an admin as a last resort to try to show what I'm saying with permission. Just the page, nothing more.

Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Mar 23rd 2024 at 1:06:01 PM

It's really not that serious mate, it can wait. I still think that the issue can be easily resolved though.

We shall hold discussion until the 29th.

if the character does change pronouns, the two most reasonable options are

1. split the page, or soft split the character folder. This is probably reasonable anyway, if the continuities are differing enough that one of them has an arc about changing pronouns and the other doesn't 2. mention in the folder that the character has different gender identities in different continuities, and use a mix of pronouns as makes sense per individual example (this is how it's handled in the Care Bears entries that were mentioned on ATT)

but ya, no changes needed until or unless this actually does happen in non-leaked, publically available material