To-do list:
- It was decided to redefine Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite by narrowing the definition to be about intersex characters being considered intrinsically attractive rather than intersex + androgynous people in general (since most the examples are about intersex people already), as well as rename the trope to Intersex Allure, and send the 'androgyny is attractive regardless of gender' idea to the Trope Idea Salvage Yard or TLP.
- Draft a description for Intersex Allure. Sandbox.Intersex Allure can be used for this.
- Clean up examples.
- Clean up on-page examples.
- Clean up wicks.
Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite's description says that it's "When a hermaphrodite, intersex, or otherwise androgynous character is so attractive that they inspire worship and desire in both males and females ... The idea is that no matter what gender you like, this person has some characteristics of that". Both the on-page and off-page examples show a wide range of usage, though, and the name has come up before on the Trope names with outdated and/or offensive language thread, as 'hermaphrodite' is today considered an outdated and offensive way to refer to intersex people.
- Intersex character is lusted after for being intersex: 22%
- Intersex character is lusted after for being androgynous: 4%
- Non-intersex character is lusted after for being androgynous: 8%
- Intersex character is portrayed as the most attractive person in the work: 8%
- Intersex or transgender character happens to be attractive/have a love interest: 10%
- People who can shapeshift are attractive: 2%
- ZCEs and potholes: 24%
- JFF, sandboxes, etc.: 14%
- Other misuse: 8%
So, there's 3 tropeworthy ways this is being used: Androgyny is portrayed as attractive, regardless of the gender or intersex status of the androgynous person (12%), intersex people are portrayed as attractive due to either being naturally androgynous or from fetishized by other characters (26%), or an intersex person is the most attractive person within a work (as considered by other characters), sometimes supernaturally so (8%). Interestingly, none of the examples I found talked about the characters being nonbinary, apart from Transgender Tropes entry that implied being androgynous and being nonbinary were the same thing.
I suggest narrowing the defintion to be about works portraying intersex people in paticular as intrinsically attractive rather than intersex + androgynous people in general (since most the examples are about intersex people already), rename, and send the 'androgyny is attractive regardless of gender' idea to the Salvage Yard.
Wick check:
Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite's on-page examples seem to be split between characters that are actual hermaphodites (rather than being intersex or nonbinary), characters who are adrogenyous in an attractive way, and characters who are nonbinary. This wick check is to see how it's being used on the rest of the wiki.- Hermaphrodite: If said character is highly sought after, see Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite.
- Even the Guys Want Him: Defines Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite as being the intersex counterpart to Even the Girls Want Her and Even the Guys Want Him(?)
- Even the Girls Want Her: If the character is intersex, then it becomes Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite.
- TabletopGame.Black Crusade: The Hermaphrodite Gift of Slaanesh doubles the degrees of success for interaction tests.
- Attraction to Outliers: Intersex people are portrayed as inherently attractive due to their Ambiguous Gender.
- No Biological Sex: If Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite is in effect, they may, in fact, have a very active sex life.
- Characters.Total War Warhammer The Daemons Of Chaos: Slaanesh in general embodies this trope and N'kari, with a body and voice that are arrestingly both male and female, is one of the god's greater personifications.
- Characters.Shinshaku Hokuo Shinwa: Is liked by men and women alike in Asgard. This is also something that has put him in danger when he was younger when adults would desire his child body. I guess?
- Literature.Phryne Fisher: Deconstructed in Blood and Circuses. Mr. Christopher the intersex circus performer attracts a wide range of admirers, but it does not end well. In the "murdered by his Abhorrent Admirer who considered Christopher his "perfect woman" even though Christopher lived as a man when he wasn't performing and already had a a fiancee" sense of "not ending well."
- Literature.Jacobs Ladder Trilogy: Mallory, the self-chosen hermaphrodite necromancer, invokes this when trying to talk Rien into having sex by insinuating that it's more interesting with a partner who is both male and female in one. It works on Rien, though whether this trope holds true for everyone else on their Small, Secluded World Colony Ship or Mallory is just starved for attention remains unclear.
- Bisexuality Tropes: Hermaphrodites have something to offer to any gender preference.
- Characters.Terra Ignota: Sniper is an androgynous celebrity who is able to pose as both a man and a woman and deliberately keeps their gender secret, selling sex dolls of themself of either sex. It goes so far that Sniper gets kidnapped occasionally by fans wanting more than just the doll. One character who does that during the story finds out that Sniper actually has both sexual organs and wonders if they were born like that or had had surgery to prevent disappointing fans, seeing as Sniper is not above engaging in the oldest profession for fun.
- Literature.Raptor: Thorn (and his alter ego Veleda) is extremely attractive to both men and women. A monk and a nun both sexually pursue him while he is still a child. In his teenage years, Thorn begins taking lovers of both genders, starting with Gudinand. As an adult, Thorn constantly beds female slaves and prostitutes, free men and women, and another hermaphrodite. Thor/Genovefa is even more promiscuous.
- Characters.Codex Equus Equestrian Pantheon: Though androgynous, they're stunningly beautiful. They managed to get Stoltur completely smitten to the point of expressing his desire to "bang" them, though this might be because one of their components is Stoltur's husband, Caerulus Melodia. For their part, they know this and has returned Stoltur's affections, but never moves past flirting out of respect for Winter Opera. That being said, they don't like being objectified for their beauty.
- Ambiguous Gender: Can be one of the attractive things that leads to Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite.
- Transgender Tropes: Androgynous/nonbinary characters are attractive to people of a variety of genders and sexual orientations.
- Manga.Welcome Back Alice: Kei’s androgynous appearance gets them admiration and attention from boys and girls.
- Literature.The Cornelius Chronicles: Everyone who see C. Brunner follows it (see below), culminating in a mass exodus of European population centers that ends when they all march lemming-like into the ocean.
- Gender and Sexuality Tropes: An intersex character has the most admirers.
- Characters.Pathfinder Empyreal Lords: They canonically "combine the most attractive traits of femininity and masculinity" and their portfolio includes beauty and sexuality.
- Manga.Kimera: Osamu falls for Kimera straight away, Jay says he's going crazy when he first sees him, then later the men who end up raping him, Kianu is also revealed to have been in love with Kimera.
- Characters.Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Crew Of The Ptolemios: She clearly have huge crush with Tieria Erde. Mileina finally confess her feeling to him before Setsuna departure to ELS Wars, saying that no matter how he is now, she will always love him.
- Literature.Chakona Space: Numerous examples of supposedly straight or even bigoted characters falling for Chakats. Other herms aren't always so lucky.
- Haiku.Hermaphrodite: She has a penis
She's proud of her uniqueness
So is her boyfriend. - WebAnimation.Overly Sarcastic Productions: Asu-shu-namir, an intersex person created by Ea, is able to rescue Ishtar by seducing Ereshkigal. Subverted in that Ereshkigal cursed gender non-binary people to be outcasts in retaliation, and double subverted in that Ishtar gave them the gifts of healing and prophecy to counterbalance this and Ereshkigal still wants them.
- Literature.Misfortune: Rose is frequently hit on by people of all genders. Potholed as 'Everybody Wants The Trans Girl'
- WMG.Doctor Who With Spoilers: Not all Time Lords can change gender when they regenerate. And every Time Lord/Lady wants the one who can change gender when they regenerate.
- Literature.Halfway Human: Tedla, constantly.
- Sliding Scale of Beauty: Steven Universe has Stevonnie as Divine Beauty, as they effortlessly attract both female and male characters.
- Theatre.Hedwig And The Angry Inch: Hedwig becomes a sex symbol.
- Characters.The Sandman 1989 The Endless: They milk this for all it's worth to that end.
- Informed Attractiveness: Slaaneshi troops are supposedly entrancing to look at, with Slaanesh hirself being a walking Charm Person spell. Presumably, Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite in 40K.
- DarthWiki.Cardians Rural: Has a reputation for causing this, as a result.
- Characters.Voyage Of The Eldritch: Just the trope name
- Recap.Sailor Moon S Ep 19 Usagi Dancing To The Waltz: Haruka proves to be so popular for her waltz skills that she gets a crowd of ladies and gentlemen asking her to be their next partner.
- Characters.Grown Ups: Joked about by both male and female characters on Beefcake and her relationship with Marcus.
- Clueless Chick-Magnet: Being made out of two children, Stevonnie is never aware why people seem to be so interested in them. Of BOTH genders no less!
- StevenUniverse.Tropes A To D: It also seems that the more stable and kind a fusion is, the better they'll appear. Stevonnie looks like a perfectly normal (and attractive, judging by the other character's reactions) teenager.
- Radio.Opie And Anthony: Well, Jim Norton would be fascinated, anyway.
- Pantheon.Character Roles: Cluelessly Luring In Dudes and Gals Alike
- Sandbox.Nightelf 37: Desire of the Endless]] (Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite)
- TropesThatWillNeverHappen.X Meets Y Entries H To N: Magical Hermaphrodite
- Pantheon.Persons Of Desire
- Sandbox.Outdated Or Offensive Trope Names
- It.Elenco Provvisorio E
- TropeNamers.Classical Mythology
- Fanfic.A Dream: Averted. No one wants to be around Colombia and her massive package. Aversions are not notable.
- Characters.The Secret World Tokyo NP Cs: Subverted. Kaoru has been forced to endure a great deal of prejudice and cruelty from people who have learned her secret. So far, the only person who's displayed any sort of sexual interest after learning the truth is Ricky Pagan, but thanks to their disastrous breakup, Kaoru refuses to believe him. This is Intersex Tribulations
- Characters.Fullmetal Alchemist Envy: Envy's default form is attractive, androgynous, and they wear a revealing outfit that shows off their muscles and curves. This is a fan reaction; no one in-universe thinks Envy is attractive
- Characters.Dungeons And Dragons Races: Subverted; the hermaphroditic lizardfolk are regarded as holy, being made in Semuanya's image, but their intelligence alienates them from their mono-gendered kinsfolk, who regard intelligence as an unnatural and undesirable trait. Furthermore, they're sterile, so they can't have children anyway. Not sure what trope this is, but I don't think this is a subversion
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 22nd 2023 at 3:16:24 AM
Yes.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Anyone got rename ideas?
Edited by Yindee on Aug 28th 2023 at 12:51:10 PM
Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker MailEdit: Reposting Below
Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Aug 29th 2023 at 6:14:22 PM
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation projectCalling in favor of the following:
- Redefine by narrowing the definition to be about intersex characters being considered intrinsically attractive rather than intersex + androgynous people in general (since most the examples are about intersex people already), and send the \'androgyny is attractive regardless of gender\' idea to the Trope Idea Salvage Yard or TLP
- If redefined in some way, rename (the name would be decided with a separate crowner, and the name choices would depend on which definition is chosen)
What are our name options?
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Lemme just repost here so that it flows better to anyone reading chronologically.
My suggestions:
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation projectI like Intersex Magnetism
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportHooked a crowner.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Would Intersex Fetishization be a viable renaming candidate to match with Transgender Fetishization?
I'm not sure, since Transgender Fetishization itself is on the TRS queue
this was why i asked whether or not it was possible to hold off on this thread until that one / if we could bump that thread forward, since it kind of seems like they have tied fates, given that they are basically the same trope, just slightly different focus
I'd be fine with that.
Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker MailPosting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of Intersex Magnetism. I didn't upvote or downvote any of the other options.
135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300I unhooked the crowner per the suggestion to make the thread for Transgender Fetishization, which I'll do since it's on the Queue.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.The thread for Transgender Fetishization is up. Had to temporarily Morgue this thread to open the slot for it. This does mean we're at 51 threads, though.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I figured it was worth saying that if any changes have to be made to the decision made in the thread for Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite, such as (but not limited to) due to any decisions made in the thread for Transgender Fetishization, that can be done.
(Mod hat on since the reason the thread for Transgender Fetishization was launched early was because of concerns raised in the thread for Everybody Wants the Hermaphrodite.)
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.possible rename idea: Enbies Attract Everyone
I think Non-Binary covers the concept better than intersex personally.
Edited by IronAnimation on Sep 24th 2023 at 4:33:33 AM
But isn't about legit intersex characters, not enbies?
Like, I get that we're expanding, but using "enby" makes it too specific in the other direction.
Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 24th 2023 at 7:36:59 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure PurenessI actually see Intersex as the more limited term since it doesn't cover situations where people have mixed sex characteristics for non-genetic reasons.
I've seen intersex used to describe nonhuman and supernatural creatures with mixed forms as a more tasteful alternative to hermaphrodite (which only applies if they have both fully functional male and female reproductive organs, i.e. certain species of worms and snails but almost never humans).
Many nonbinary people may present entirely as one binary sex on the outside, and are thus neither intersex nor hermaphroditic, so enby would not overlap especially well.
Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 24th 2023 at 4:56:53 AM
Would a Sex Shifter still fall under this trope, or does the redefine preclude supernatural stuff?
From the cherry, to the apple, to the peach, to the plumI feel like that's Attractive Bent-Gender.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure PurenessThe crowner decision that this is only about intersex characters confuses me. The majority of real-life intersex people identify as male or female, and plenty of non-binary people are not intersex. It wouldn't make sense to include intersex characters who look and identify as male/female, nor to exclude non-binary characters just because they aren't explicitly stated as intersex. But I'm sure this trope can include unrealistic fictional (non-human/supernatural) Hermaphrodites.
Keet cleanuprjd's post led me to realize that we may end up having to revisit the decisions we made in this thread before Transgender Fetishization's was brought to TRS early (with that thread being brought to TRS early due to both tropes being determined to have related issues), so in addition to what I said in this post about decisions in the Transgender Fetishization thread possibly affecting decisions made by this thread (though that thread hasn't had any crowners yet), we can retract decisions made by the crowner in this thread if necessary.
(I actually forgot we had a crowner for this thread already, between concerns being raised about the then-pending Transgender Fetishization thread before it was opened early, the fact that the crowner was unhooked meaning there's no crowner icon, and because I had been taking a break from TRS for a while.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 27th 2023 at 11:21:54 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.In regard to the Enby thing, wouldn't the simplest option be to make a "Mx Fanservice"-type trope for when Nonbinary characters are subject to fanservice? I can think of like three or four examples off the top of my head.
It's not about the gold; it's about the glory.
Crown Description:
It was decided to redefine Everybody Wants The Hermaphrodite by narrowing the definition to be about intersex characters being considered intrinsically attractive rather than intersex + androgynous people in general (since most the examples are about intersex people already), and send the 'androgyny is attractive regardless of gender' idea to the Trope Idea Salvage Yard or TLP. In addition, it was decided to rename the trope. What should the trope's new name be?
For the record, the two "redefine" options are mutually exclusive with each other, correct?
I'm lovin' it. (My Troper Wall)