Pretty Cure general thread

Ehhh. While I agree that Nyammy could've been introduced earlier I like what they're doing with her. By contrast I see no reason why we needed to wait for episode 9 for Wing to be introduced and a whopping 18 episodes for Ageha to become Butterfly. Hell, I don't see why we had to wait for episode 4 for Prism. In general I think introducing the core team (So not including midseasons or the rare latercomers like Muse.) back to back within the first 5-6 episodes or so is better than dragging them out. I guess Butterfly is technically Hirogaru's midseason but she didn't have to be.

And, honestly, between Sora, Mashiro, Komugi, and Iroha I think I like Komugi and Mashiro the most. I definitely wouldn't say Komugi and Iroha are just okay. They're not the best psuedo-duo we've had but they're still fun to watch in their own right. I'd say they're on par with Megumi and Hime. Like they're no Manatsu and Laura or Tsubomi and Erika but they're still good.

I can only assume this is meant for me and not Sterok but, no, there are things I like about Healin' Good. 3/4th's of the Cure designs are solid (Sparkle being the exception.), I like most of the villains, and I like most of the Cures as characters (Hinata and Nodoka more than Chiyu/Chiyuu and Asami but even then I still like Chiu/Chiyuu, just not s much as the other two.), etc. Healin' Good can have its merits and still be one of the worst seasons. I don't like the decision Nodoka/the show made when it comes to dealing with Daruizen (Or the fandom's hatred for Daruizen for that matter.) and I especially don't like Rabirin as a character but the worst thing about the show is that it's fucking boring. A good cast cannot save a boring show. Like, Delicious Party has an all around solid cast of characters with the exceptions of Kotone and it's big bad, but that doesn't make it a good show.

Edited by Chariot on May 5th 2024 at 1:36:07 PM

I don't want to get to defensive of Bell, because she is a lame villain. But so many people miss the point of what they are going for. I will preface this by saying I thing the show doesn't succeed at what it's going for, but that doesn't excuse others from completely misunderstanding her motivations and character. So to spell it out clearly

BELL IS NOT AN ECO TERRORIST.

It is not about the environment or nature to her, she doesn't give to shits about the environment beyond how it effects the town. What she cares about is preserving the town, but she only cares about the physical location of the town, to the point that she completely misses the point that towns exist for people to live in and that people are essential to the town.

Because that is the intended dramatic irony of her character. She is every bit as selfish and short sighted as the humans she so despises and much like humans, destroyed the town in her future, through their own selfish and short sighted actions, she very nearly did the same.

"Does Karen get to have a Relationship Upgrade with Kurumi?"

The characters were never written to be anything but friends, with maybe some subtext. I don't see them not getting together as a dangling plot thread.

"Does Urara ever get to see Syrup again?"

Given the faeries come and go and have regular contact with the Cures, it's pretty evident that she does.

"Does Bunbee ever have another run-in with the cast?"

How is this an important question? Does Bunbee do this thing that isn't even implied in the show?

"Does Mai get to do anything besides push Saki to study abroad?"

Are we just going to ignore her own spotlight episode?

"Does Milk successfully become Prime Minister, or is her "rebellion" put down by the Palmier monarchy?"

How is this a question? It's pretty clear that this was something she was being allowed to be doing. And the fact that she's a "Prime Minister" means she is by definition working under the monarchy.

You can't just ask a bunch of Cinemscins tier questions and declare them dangling threads.

"The central conflict, the Time Flowers, aren't explained well either — they're portents of disaster implied to represent each Cure's lifespan, but then, they actually aren't and Nozomi is completely fine after it withers!" Why even have that in the story, then? What was the point, besides not having to animate a Transformation Sequence for the adult Cures? How were they even "de-aged"? And why weren't the Time Flowers blooming during whatever villains' attacks on Palmier in the past?"

This is the only legitimate question, because the show doesn't do a great job of conveying it but. The time flowers were blooming in response to the Cure's need for their power and were granting them the ability to transform again at the expense of the cast from life span thing, because it was a forced unnatural transformation. Bell is implied to have revived Nozomi after her brush with death.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't like the Time Flowers either, but it's also another case of people not even understanding what is wrong with them, when they complain about them.

Edited by Gaogaigar54 on May 5th 2024 at 10:49:25 AM

Wasn't expecting so much heat from my review of Otona, but I can at least try to rebut those points.

• I know Bell's motivation is "preserve the town by any means necessary", not "save the environment", but it's hard not to call her an eco-terrorist when she is trying to turn her citizens into Shadows because they caused climate change (which, in turn, made the town uninhabitable) and she is trying to stop that from happening in a senselessly harmful, destructive way. Trying to prevent climate change by casting eldritch magic on innocents is definitely something an eco-terrorist would do if they were given Bell's powers. Even if she isn't directly stated to be one, she is one by implication.

• The reason I'm asking about "Cinema-Sins tier questions" is because it boils down to one simple thing: What Happened to the Mouse?. I guess you could count the very brief shots of them in the credits as "resolution", but I really don't like the way Otona condenses each Cure's conflict into one episode and then never really uses the character again aside from assists during Shadow battles. You got me, those aren't "unresolved threads". It's a show underutilizing many of its leads, which is arguably worse.

• Regarding Milk's Prime Minister thing, I don't recall her having a conversation with Coco and Nuts about it. Kurumi just decided to quit her job on a whim to be Prime Minister, a position the inhabitants of Palmier seemed completely confused about before she explained it to them. Didn't seem like it was anything official or binding, even if she did have popular support.

• Where does it imply Bell revived Nozomi? I just remember her leaving into her Pocket Dimension after the final battle, having made her Heel–Face Turn. And then Nozomi just miraculously woke up again. I don't recall anything supernatural about it — what I do remember is them going, "oh, I guess the Time Flowers weren't dangerous after all, we sure were stupid, huh?", so it seemed like that whole panic over the flowers killing Nozomi was a total Red Herring.

"I don't have the power to reverse my destiny. [...] But I'm not going to turn away from my fate anymore." — Kiriya

The thing is Bell's plan being self defeating and destructive it the intended point. As I said, she is meant to be pretty much everything she hates about humans.

The problem with your "What happened to mouse?" is that none of them are unresolved plot points, most of them don't even have anything to actually do with what happens in the show.

You might as well ask, "Did Saki, die by way of falling down the stairs, when she was in France"

the fact that Milk is getting away with doing it in public makes it pretty clear that Coco is cool with it. And like I said what she was doing wasn't a "rebellion".

As for Bell reviving Nozomi. Her bell tower starts glowing and the light shines into the room just before Nozomi wakes up.

"oh, I guess the Time Flowers weren't dangerous after all, we sure were stupid, huh?"

Nothing to that effect was said.

Edited by Gaogaigar54 on May 5th 2024 at 11:58:03 AM

Now to establish what is actually wrong with the time flowers, they are ultimately a forced element to for lack of a better term force finality onto the story.

While the de-aging transformations are dumb. I can live with them because they ultimately served the thematic purpose of showing that the girls in spite of everything, still maintained those qualities that originally made them worthy of being Precure. And how those things don't go away in the darker more cynical world of an adult, they just become harder to see.

But really all of this could have been done and achieved without the time flowers plot point. Have it simply be that their Precure forms remain at the age they first got them (which as Cure Flower demonstrated in Heartcatch, is actually how it works) and that instead of needing the time flowers, have it be that they never really lost the ability to transform and just needed to get a reminder of what they stand for and to get their grove back. It would achieve the same thing, but without any need for the dumb plot device that is the time flowers.

Because ultimately the time flowers exist solely to force the idea of them returning to being Precures as a temporary things and to completely cut off the possibility for future adventures for the girls. Which is just dumb, because really there is no reason to have the girls not be Precures throughout their whole lives. If their Kamen Rider and Super Sentai brethren can continue being super heroes well into middle age and even old age, why can't the Precure?

And that is the problem with the time flowers as they force an end to their adventures when their ultimately isn't any good reason to do so.

15. A good example of how a fine episode can be brought down by a show's structural issues. It attempted to make me care about Mey Mey and Niko Garden. Didn't work, but it's good that they made the attempt. Too bad I just don't care while we're still waiting for Mayu to transform and Yuki to join the team. At best Mey Mey has moved up from mildly annoying to just neutral to me.

I don't get this attitude that Mayu doesn't count as a proper character until she transforms?

In your own words you have complained about the show constantly teasing us with the character we actually want to see (Mayu). The problem with that complaint is Mayu is already there front and center, she has had just as much screen time as the main pair and probably more character development than either of them at this point. It's not like all that doesn't count, just because she hasn't transformed yet.

Also random Shin-chan crossover next week.

Edited by Gaogaigar54 on May 12th 2024 at 12:59:19 PM

The future male cure:

Edited by Kindle4Light on May 12th 2024 at 2:09:07 AM

This latest episode got me to realize that Mey Mey being a sheep and a butler is meant to be a pun in Japanese. It's because the words for butler (shitsuji) and sheep (hitsuji) sound similar.

Sort of expected this one to be a Wham Episode, since Niko Garden is front and center unlike most of the other episodes, but I'm starting to think I set my expectations much too high. Not even a hint of the mysterious wolf villain, even though he appeared for the previous two Kirarin Animals. So I'm a bit let down by the slow pacing of the show.

On a more positive note, I found Meymey surprisingly endearing. He reminds me a bit of Mr Herriman, but less of a stickler for the rules and more silly and self-important. (Can't help thinking he's secretly evil, though. I know how insane that sounds.)

The most interesting thing about this episode, I thought, was the idea that even extinct, prehistoric animals have started to appear in Niko Garden. Maybe there will be a dinosaur later on?

"I don't have the power to reverse my destiny. [...] But I'm not going to turn away from my fate anymore." — Kiriya

I'm not Sterok, but I also feel that frustration that he feels so I can comment on that. I remind you that Mayu and Yuki did not appear in half of the first cour of chapters, to the point that in some chapters they only appeared in only one scene, besides, they were not part of the Myth Arc at all that time. They were basically glorified secondary characters instead of being the main characters as shown in the opening of the series and official materials.

And this goes to Chariot, the Precure series do need physical fights to be considered good series since that is part of their essence, you take that away and there is only one more magical girl series left of the bunch, the most that could be done is what Soaring Sky did with having one or another Breather Episode that does not have any conflict

Mayu has more character focus and development than the main duo at this point. And it's kind of hard for them to be part of the myth arc when there really isn't one at this point and I suspect there may not be one period in the show.

x2

No Precure doesn't need physical fights to be good. Kirakira is a (mostly) beloved series (nowadays) and its fights mostly amount to beam spams. Maho Girls has (in my opinion) the worst fights in the frnachise and it's also beloved. Precure does not need amazing physical fights to be good. Hell in Delicious Party the fights were often the highlight of the episode (for me) and while I may be in the minority for considering it a contender for worst season from what I've seen people don't like Delicious Party in general. Fight do not make or break a Precure series. Wonderful is just an outlier for having less intense fights than even Kirakira (Ya know, the season that used to be considered the bottom of the barrel in terms of fights before Wonderful came along.) and even it has its fans.

Edited by Chariot on May 14th 2024 at 11:31:04 AM

Again, I have to agree with this take.

The franchise's typical action and tension are just highly re-contextualized for Wonderful; that's the distinct identity it has chosen. It's just that we went from monster hunting to monster taming, and the writers did an excellent job of convincing us to believe and agree with this change.

These two may literally be more bark than bite, but they are no less tenacious than everyone else.

I personally don't think so, but thats my opinion.

Watch Symphogear

The question isn't should the Cures punch a monster if it hurts an innocent. That's been answered before, and the answer is almost always no (sorry Seiji). The question is why the writers set it up that the Cures punching a monster hurts an innocent, and is new thing they do still engaging? As of now I'd say the new thing is eh, but also not that much worse than the usual mediocre fights. What I do think they should do is use their Cure powers outside of monster chases more often. There's gotta be more ways to help animals, and this season needs as many ways for them to look cool as it can get.

...because they wanted the animal theme to matter in a way that's genuine, unlike Kira Kira.

For me, it's a yes. Obviously, YMMV.

This I do agree with; but good luck having these ladies do Mundane Utility in a way that doesn't backfire and / or be out of Mey Mey's sight. It's bad enough that Komugi Cannot Keep a Secret about her human form!

These two may literally be more bark than bite, but they are no less tenacious than everyone else.

The problem with the lack of fights in Wonderful is that there is no way of doing things that isn't completely antithetical to the franchise.

The monsters of the weak are ultimate just frightened and suffering animals, so having the heroines who are meant to embody empathy and compassion beat them, is pretty antithetical to what the Precures stand for.

On the other hand Precure is meant to be an actions show ("even girls want to rampage" being part of the concept the series was founded on) and is the distaff counterpart to Kamen Rider and Super Sentai. When you take the action out, you take away one of the main things that make Precure, Precure and in many ways is just as antithetical to the franchise. And there is ultimately no tension in the Cure's mission as a result of that.

Wonderful's problem is that it's in a situation where having fights is the wrong answer, but not having them is also the wrong answer. The show has kind of put itself in a corner.

Granted Tokyo mew mew also had the monsters of the week be transformed animals with one of the early fights having the girl not want to attack her transformed pet, so it just side stepped the issue entirely by having the battles and purification just have no lasting impact on the animals after the fact. Wonderful is trying to be a kinder series and I do understand why it wants to do that (and I do like that it's actually trying to engage with animal facts and the ways to handle them) but I'd say as of now my issues are:

1. So far it seems all the girls base abilities are just barrier and all of them can use the kirarin power ups so it kind of results in them not having any real unique individual identities in their "battles".

2. After coming from hirogaru that kept any info on its antagonist side to its chest for most of the story to the detriment of it near the end wonderful doing the same does make me a bit wary.

Also yeah when the hand to hand was meant to be the whole conceit of the franchise seasons that lack it feel a bit off.

I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boys

These are fair grievances!

As to #1, that is an especially damning disappointment after Hirogaru took the time to make each of its ladies (and lad) stand out with unique abilities and skillsets. It would have been nice for the Kirarin powerups to affect each Cure differently from each other.

My fix for #2 is simply more focus on the villains. Yeah, the crux and focus should be on the heroes and developing them. However, knowing who these villains are and why they are making the denizens of the Niko Garden go Garugaru would be very appreciated to understand both sides of the conflict.

• For example: as pathetic as Happiness Charge's villains are, they do express their genuine grievances. We do know them; we understand what they want, and their desperation to have it. Ofc, they don't need to show up every episode; but I am also a bit peeved that Wonderful hasn't even begun to give us this courtesy.

At least Wonderful explains itself very thoroughly in this regard so it stings a lot less. Maybe when the villains show themselves to the Cures, the actual combat will happen. Until then, I'm happy with the current focus on getting Nyammy and Lillian to become full time teammates for Wonderful and Friendy.

These two may literally be more bark than bite, but they are no less tenacious than everyone else.

The most I've managed to figure out about "???" is that he dislikes humans for some unspecified reason. He calls humans "ningen-domo", a suffix that indicates humans are a lower status than he is. Other than that, I got nothing.

Any theories?

"I don't have the power to reverse my destiny. [...] But I'm not going to turn away from my fate anymore." — Kiriya

Yes, one does come to mind.

I'm thinking that ??? is closely related to Niko-sama; BUT he was exiled to the human world for some reason and subsequently lost his ability to speak so that the Niko Garden can remain a secret. Years later, he had gained a human form the same way that Komugi and Yuki did except, as a former resident of the Niko Garden, he knows how the Mirror Stone works and is looking to destroy it so that it can't be used against him. The problem with his plan is that the Garugaru have no way to know what the Mirror Stone is, so he just tells them to destroy everything they can in Animal Town.

These two may literally be more bark than bite, but they are no less tenacious than everyone else.

Chariot, I'm telling you, Kira Kira status in the fandom hasn't changed. It remains a forgettable series that only continues to have the same fans it had in its time, and that situation is not going to change in the long term given the errors it had, especially the absence of physical combat.

Any other series in the franchise has the possibility of gaining new fans thanks to the fact that those series always maintained physical battles regardless of how they were animated.

The battles are what hook the public into the Precure series since they are part of the story.

Any Precure series that considers removing the physical battles would simply be shooting themselves in the foot and even if there are people who like the concept of not having those battles, they will only be a minority compared to the general public who is aware that those battles are what give life to the franchise.

It's also curious that you have such bad opinions about Maho Girls and Healin' Good when in fact they are good series, especially the former one that is going to have its adult sequel

I think you might be overestimating just how much the "general public" care about Precure. It's adult fanbase (ie us) is a pretty niche thing. It is a series who's audience are mostly little girls who are probably barely aware that the prior generations of Precure are even a thing.

While I agree with your assessment that Precure should have fights, the way you are going about it is a fallacy.

Happiness Charge had great fights, but is still widely considered to be garbage to this day. Even in a point when many other initially poorly received series such as Suite and Doki Doki have been reevaluated.

I have seen quite a few people be more positive on Kira Kira these days, than their were back when it aired. Including people who were negative on it back then.

My only view of Kira Kira was that it pretty much copied Tokyo Mew Mew