Sinfest Cleanup

But it's long since been decided that we won't remove images for merely being from this dumb comic. 

Yeah, pages with Sinfest pics can be considered to be in the same category as pages with pics whose source works violate the Content Policy, in that if the pics work for the pages, then they're not to be removed just because of their sources.

Edited by Willbyr on Nov 24th 2023 at 4:46:31 AM

• Irony:
  • The Cartoonist's cat tries to bring down the instrument of punishment and enforcement. He brings down the bookshelf on himself instead.
  • Fuchsia spent much of her time torturing Seymour so that his already fanatical beliefs would turn him into a paranoid monster so that the devil could more easily influence him (not that they considered him a threat, but more as a toy or a joke), but she was so successful that when she tries to Heel–Face Turn, Seymour's fanatical paranoia prevents him from seeing that she's changing into something better while he's being flanderized into something worse by said paranoia. Since Seymour USED to be a better character, Fuchsia sometimes believes that he is right to condemn (she IS one of the people who helped to corrupt him) as we see here. Basically, her past actions are stopping her from turning completely through Seymour's paranoia. All is not lost as Cupid, literally shot love back into Seymour, so maybe he'll give her a chance.
  • Xanthe described gender roles as a source of discontent and alienation, however, it was exactly "enlightening" 'Nique that led to discontent and alienation of 'Nique, who actually stopped feeling comfortable in her life, descended into paranoia and was condemned by her fans as a result of a change in her views. Despite author's mockery, the same could be said about Slick who now, due to the change in 'Nique's ideals, lost an important friend.
  • On a meta level, the entire Sisterhood retool and the "Patriarchy Blockers" used to facilitate it being written as a huge sendup to The Matrix is very ironic to people who are actually familiar with the movie, especially since it started being used to "awaken" characters to anti-transgender positions. The writers of The Matrix came out as transgender themselves years ago, and it's widely believed the entire movie itself was a huge allegory to a transgender person realizing and accepting that part of themselves. For another level of irony, this is pretty much the exact same reappropriation of the movie's "redpill" concept that right-wing extremists would use a few years after the comic did. Turns out invokedMisaimed Fandominvoked creates some strange bedfellows.

I'm not sure what to say here. I know the last one should be deleted at least, because I'm sure Irony dosen't count "meta" examples.

Agree to cutting the last point. Also, that rant describes a lot of far-right misuse of the "red pill" metaphor, not just Sinfest.

So, about the description...

The unilateral changes by the now suspended user were overzealous, but the current description does feel like it's burying the lede considering how extreme the comic is now. I'd suggest rewriting the first paragraph to start with. Suggestion:

Sinfest is a Webcomic by Tatsuya Ishida, an outgrowth of a strip he originally created for the UCLA college newspaper. Over the course of its lengthy run, it underwent several significant changes; what started out as a light-hearted comedy strip is, in its current iteration, a virulently queerphobic, antisemitic, extreme right-wing Author Tract.

When it began in 2000, it revolved mainly around [...]

I'm not sure... I think the description is fine as is. It describes how it started, and how it changed drastically over time. It's not like the reader doesn't find out eventually what the comic is now.

Agreed; we don't need to bring that up at the very beginning. The later paragraphs in the description already explain the strip's thematic shifts well.

This was recently added to the end of the main description by joeengland, then tweaked by Smeagol 17 to add the "(now?)" bit:

As of 2024, there are signs that the author may in fact (now?) be an Esoteric Nazi. Strips depicting pre-war Germany, his defense of Ye, and his dedication to conspiratorial antisemitism strongly indicate a specific intention to align himself with Nazi ideals. Furthermore, he repeatedly invokes occult, anti-semitic canards like the "blood libel" myth and the apocalyptic "red cow", and has also devoted several strips to Hyperborea, a supposed Aryan promised land in the psuedo-religious framework of the Esoteric sect.

I don't know about this, even the paragraph dosen't seem so sure about what it's claiming. It just feels like a continuation of the author's alt-right shift more than anything. I'm not sure why joeengland didn't mention these tropes that they mentioned in their edit reason on the trope section.

I'm just a bit weary about this after the description vandalism incident that happened a while ago.

Edited by PlasmaPower on May 5th 2024 at 7:57:42 AM

I mean, I've looked into it every so often and Tats is absolutely spreading Neo Nazi claims and propaganda.

I’ve loomed through some of the recent comics, and many of the claims that passage is making are true (the red cow, the references to Hyperborea, etc.).

The question is if this is actually necessary. The description already contains a rather detailed paragraph about Tats’ descent into far-right politics, including the anti-Semitism at the core of much of this; we don’t need to continue to elaborate on his downfall. (I could’ve sworn an extension like this had been added before…)

If we want to compromise, we can just slightly edit the existing paragraph:

I think that's a workable solution. It's possible that it still underplays the antisemitism a bit (it seriously feels like it makes up 90% of his current strips), but I guess the bigger problem is that we're trying to write about trends in an ongoing webcomic that is... quite unhinged. I'd be happy to go with your paragraph; we don't need much more detail about the author's insane freefall into Nazism.

Yeah, I think my issue is that description is already pretty lengthy. It's just really hard to condense it all the things the webcomic has done because of how long it's been going on for plus the radical shifts that make them seem like completely different webcomics. I just don't want to add more to the length unless we have to.

Edited by PlasmaPower on May 7th 2024 at 6:59:47 AM

Tried my hand at rewriting the opening using the paragraph before. I think everything here reads fine but I just gave a few rewrites if necessary.

Sinfest is a Webcomic by Tatsuya Ishida, an outgrowth of a strip he originally created for the UCLA college newspaper. It's one of the longest-running webcomics around, with over 6,700 strips as of spring 2019.

Sinfest began in 2000, and started out as a light-hearted comedy revolving mainly around the goofy antics of Slick, a Calvin-esque teenaged "pimp" who was always trying to look cool and pick up chicks, and his hot friend Monique, who spent her days flirting with hot guys (of whom Slick never qualified). Other prominent characters included God, the Devil, Jesus, Buddha, and the Dragon, an embodiment of Eastern religion; Seymour and Li'l Evil, raging fanboys of God and the Devil respectively; Squigley, a stoner pig who is one of Slick's pals; The Artist, a comic artist and Ishida's Author Avatar; Percival and Pooch, the Artist's cat-and-dog duo; and Criminy, a sheltered bookworm and mutual friend of Slick and Squigley.

In its early years, Sinfest was mainly a gag-a-day comic with little regard for continuity. In addition to the humor based on the cast's foibles, it routinely played with Black Comedy scenarios, drug- and sexually-themed humor, and subversive pokes at the nature of religion and morality, among other topics and Running Gags. Slick and Monique's odd friendship was the foundation of the comic and focus never strayed from it for long, but after a few years, other storylines became prominent, such as Criminy's chaste romance with one of the Devil's succubi, the Devil becoming a more serious antagonist, and revelations about Li'l Evil's backstory, as well as politically-themed gags and overall development for many characters.

However, in October 2011, Sinfest began a huge shift in theme and focus with the introduction of the Sisterhood. The comic quickly ditched almost every aspect of its old nature and turned toward a radical brand of second-wave feminism. From that point on in the world of Sinfest, society was brainwashed by a Matrix-like Patriarchy controlled by the Devil which the Sisterhood fought against, and the comic's world was connected to an alternate reality where greed, lust, and other traits fueled by the Patriarchy are the norm. The Sisterhood became part of the main cast, if not the main focus, while the previously recurring characters either appeared less frequently or completely ignored. The Sisterhood's influence drastically changed both Monique and Slick, with the two breaking up and the former coming out as a political lesbian.

Then in 2019, seemingly overnight, Sinfest saw yet another radical shift in theme, this time towards far-right political conservatism. To an outside observer, the current setting now seems like the polar opposite of what was preached in the past decade, with "woke" movements and groups becoming quite literally demonized and subplots featuring anti-vaccination rhetoric, the QAnon conspiracy theory, increasingly virulent transphobia and antisemitism, and allusions to Neo-Nazism. The one common thread remaining is a severe indictment of the sex industry. Beyond that, storytelling trends introduced in The New '10s remain in practice. Several new characters have been introduced, and the comic is focusing on extended storylines that can run for weeks at a time, with once-regular gags and characters only occasionally showing up. Sinfest now is so different from its former self as to almost be a new comic, which could make an Archive Binge a jarring experience.

Edited by SkylaNoivern on May 9th 2024 at 1:48:42 AM

Looks good to me!