Splatoon

Yeah if a new mainline Splatoon happens anytime soon, they need to really up their game. 3 already struggled to justify its own existence, despite a number of improvements, it never really got anything that felt truly game changing like Salmon Run did for 2. Didn't help that it was on the same system that already had 2, when this really feels like a "one game per system" series. If the next system is backwards compatible, it will have that same problem to an extent, though at least it should have more hardware power and perhaps new gimmicks to work with.

no actually i agree

i genuinely really hope they do more stuff with Off The Hook and Deep Cut, Callie and Marie got enough spotlight

plus, i don't think Off The Hook's story is complete yet. there's still more to explore, more to see, GIVE US MORE PEARL BACKSTORY, COME ON

and Deep Cut is just missed potential, i really want them to compose the next ending song instead of just making Daybreaker Anthem for the end of a Fest, and can we please look more into their clans? like it's so glossed over, please give me more

but yeah i agree, give me more lesbians pleeeeaaaaasssseeeeee

oh also make Acht relevant again in the next story, because in Side Order, they kinda just felt like they were there because... they were there. woo.

edit: someone posted while i was writing this so i had to change the arrow count

Edited by Eisner on May 7th 2024 at 9:51:44 AM

Of course Splatoon 3 justified its own existence. Splatoon 2 made bank, so therefore the idea was that Splatoon 3 would make even more bank — and it did!

Back at the start of Splatoon 3's update cycle, a lot of people seemed to just accept OTH not being in the base game aside from some super brief cameos, because they figured their story was done after OE and FinalFest and there was nowhere else to take their characters. Of course, Side Order proved them wrong on both counts

I also saw a lot of people say Off the Hook had no reason to be around for Return of the Mammalians because it was a story about the Squid Sisters, which I think is a load of bunk, frankly. Return of the Mammalians is not a Squid Sisters story in the same way Side Order is an Off the Hook story. Like, it's not even comparable

Edited by Midna on May 7th 2024 at 11:58:22 AM

Been saying that about Acht for a while now.

While I do think the game justified its existence, a lot of stuff just felt really half baked especially the story stuff.

Salmon Run all the time is fun, Big Run isn’t always great but it’s been fun, Eggstra work is okay, three way splatfest debates have been rocky but I like tricolor conceptually, challenges are interesting but too infrequent to really enjoy.

Level design has been great for charger mains and nobody else.

Mixed bag.

@Midna

It's because splat2 didn't give OTH any character at the beginning with later updates and DLC fixing that, alongside how that game felt like a retread at the best of times or empty at the worst is a massive peeve of mine as it just means that Nintendo screwed up, this of course is coming from a retrospective view on the game and because of that I don't view OTH within the best of light as to me they are representatives of that time, which doesn't help how I feel about SO which gives me the same feelings of that experience.

In comparison splat3 right out of the gate gave me more of a feeling on what it is and what it's wants to be, with DC having more to do then OTH in the beginning, the SS are both here making jokes at the agents expense, having massive lore that builds the world in more and the game just feels different from splat 1&2 that it could stand on its own.

And I'm sorry I wasn't trying to invalidate your feelings on what happen to you, I use as way for humor as I don't known how to used humor mode.

Edited by The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion on May 7th 2024 at 10:05:26 AM

[[HumorMode enter your joke here]]

We've already had many enthusiastic discussions about how Off the Hook was written at the start of Splatoon 2 versus how Deep Cut was written at the start of Splatoon 3 (and how the Squid Sisters are written in Splatoon 3, period), and to my recollection we decided that we'd have to agree to disagree

Edited by Midna on May 7th 2024 at 12:18:23 PM

the reason why big man wasn't in suffer no fools is because he would commit 1st degree murder

Thank you

i disagree, actually! at least for the story. the story feels very well-made to me.

sure, the Squid Sisters feel like they were just jammed in there for the sake of "we've done this for two games, why not three" but Deep Cut feels a lot more characterized thanks to the story mode, Agent 3 being Captain now is a nice detail, the Sunken Scrolls do really help make the story mode feel more complete, (spoiler for anyone who hasn't beaten story mode in the spoiler tag! you've been warned!) Mr. Grizz showing up in the flesh is great, actually, and DJ Octavio helping us feels like we've finally resolved the central conflict of the previous two games. might just be because it's my first Splatoon, but eh.

at release the rest of the game did feel undercooked, though. the fact that stage-specific dialogue wasn't even there at the beginning just felt... strange.

Fair point. I do think they should have done more stuff with Deep Cut though, same with Side-Order in general.

I have mixed feelings about Deep Cut's role in Return of the Mammalians. On one hand, they're bosses! That's really cool! Their fights are very fun! Phantamanta! On the other, it necessarily means they're shoved into the background until you get to the space center and they work out their differences with you. So the news and Splatfest conversations had to hard-carry their characterization. Good thing that for all its unskippability, the news dialogue in Splatoon is usually snappy and well-writt— oh. Oh. Oh, we rushed, didn't we.

Even now that stage-specific dialogue is back, Deep Cut's boss role means they're basically side characters in one campaign while every other idol group has been the main characters of at least two, and the central focus of one each. I don't dislike them by any means, but they definitely feel more like Team Rocket compared to the other two idol groups, in more ways than one

I didn't know Splatoon 3 was your first game. It... was probably not the best foot to start on in terms of PVP, but Salmon Run in S3 is (chef's kiss) and. OK, I like Return of the Mammalians less than Octo Canyon, because I didn't think ROTM was very well-written and the finale of Octo Canyon is just so good even if the rest of it is mid and best idol gets the short straw, but objectively it's a better first single-player experience

Edited by Midna on May 7th 2024 at 1:35:02 PM

Deep Cut is... certainly an idol group.

okay, i love them, they're absolutely wonderful, i honestly think i like them more than i like the Squid Sisters (as an idol group, City of Color and Tomorrow's Nostalgia Today SWEEP Anarchy Poisons and Rainbow), which is wild to me, honestly. BUT

they certainly feel like they were suuuuper underutilized in the story mode, like they thought "oh fuck oh shit what do we do with Deep Cut, they have literally zero importance outside of the news, fuck"

honestly? i probably would've preferred them getting absolutely zero focus in the main game and then getting a DLC campaign, not unlike Off The Hook did for 2 and 3. Deep Cut's dynamic, the fact that they are three idols, the fact that their backstories are completely different from the Inklings and Octolings of the last two games, and all their personalities feel like they would've shined for their own dedicated campaign. here's to Splatoon 4 fixing that though.

or even a content extension! (i'm just coping with the fact that i only bought 3 recently haha 🥲)

also yeah i agree, 3 is not the best with PvP, every stage feels so coddamn cramped, i think i probably would've preferred 1 or 2's stage designs. but hey! at least Salmon Run fucks hard!

I'mma be honest, maybe the Splatoon devs ought to break trends and have a singleplayer campaign that focuses on that game's idol group alone, with no other characters. It shouldn't take a sequel's campaign or DLC to flesh them out.

Deep Cut/New Three and Off the Hook/Eight team up in Splatoon 4 to save the Squid Sisters the twist is that right before the final boss, you find out they broke out on their own, because they kind of have military training

That would be really neat. I actually wish they did something like that for Side Order. If not with Marina (somebody needs to counter Order's hacks), then at least with Acht

Edited by Midna on May 7th 2024 at 2:02:56 PM

game where you play as Deep Cut and there's like a switch button so you can switch between the three of them and they all have wildly different playstyles

also their Specials are just calling upon their animal friends (or just becoming Phantamanta, in Big Man's case)

Splatoon Heroes

Big Man looks like he would be power, but really we all know he'd be a kite

Well, Power characters did get the glide moves.

I feel like they're in a bit of a quandary at this point because they're reaching a point at which the existing cast is large enough that it's impossible to give all of them adequate focus in the base game without massively expanding certain modes. Splatoon one basically only had a cast of 4 people (Squid Sisters, Cuttlefish, Octavio), 2 introduced Pearl and Marina, which worked okay because they split them in multiplayer with the Sisters focused on Singleplayer, while Pearl and Marina got focus in the DLC.

3 had issues because they introduced even more characters, but there weren't any more open areas to put them in, so they had to share story mode with Squidbeak Splatoon, while Off the Hook got relegated to DLC again.

I'm not sure how 4 would be able to introduce another group of characters and give them adequate development without either drastically increasing the scope of singleplayer so that it can actually develop more characters, or pushing existing characters to the side more.

I, for one, would not be upset to see a more ambitious take on Splatoon's single-player campaigns. I would also not be upset to see spinoffs, as long as they're not, you know. Amiibo Festival tier

It's not really Off the Hook being "the DLC cast" for Splatoon 3 that I didn't like as much as the fact that they were literal background filler for 16 straight months. I know Nintendo likes to be tight-lipped about things to prevent spoilers, but Side Order being helmed mostly by new crew members didn't just mean it was more innovative, it also meant it took longer. Especially considering a roguelike was something Splatoon had never done before. And when Splatoon 3 first came out, to see the face characters of the last game be pushed aside so hard, so soon after they had just gotten so much focus in the Octo Expansion. I don't know, it just felt disrespectful to me

It was "to get new players acquainted with Inkopolis", so I don't think it was as a farewell

Edited by Midna on May 7th 2024 at 1:49:41 AM

which is something I'm honestly expecting at this point, heck they are using both the old hubs probably as a goodbye to the first three games.

Edited by The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion on May 7th 2024 at 1:47:55 AM

praying that Splatoon 4 puts more focus on the shopkeepers

GIVE ME MORE SPYKE OR BISK OR GNARLY EDDY OR MR COCO CONTENT COWARDS

Harmony. I like Harmony. She's cool. I want to see more of her

Oh, I'd love to see a more involved single-player mode. The question is just whether they'd commit the resources to create something that elaborate on top of also trying to upgrade the multiplayer.

you expected Harmony but it was her cousin Chaos.