Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Not the Eye
- Rebel Moon:
- Balisarius (Ghal-Sur)
- Admiral Atticus Noble is an ambitious Imperium commander and the most brutal minion of Regent Balisarius. Tasked with crushing uprisings at the borders of the Realm, Noble ruthlessly enforces the Imperium’s will with the help of his dreadnought which is capable of laying waste to entire planets. Searching for the Bloodaxe siblings, he comes to a village on Veldt in search of grain to feed his army. When the village’s leader lies to him about the amount of grain they produce, Noble clobbers him to death and demands an enormous amount of grain, leaving his sadistic soldiers to keep the villagers in line, not caring that they will starve to death because of his demands. When presented with a captured rebel liaison, Noble promises him freedom in exchange for information, only to sever his spinal cord and leave him a prisoner in his own body after getting it, ordering his brain to be dissected to see if he knows anything more. Learning that the Bloodaxes are protected by King Levitica, Noble personally kills him while having his planet completely razed. Capturing Kora’s group and learning that Kora is the infamous Scargiver, Noble plans to sever their spinal cord and take them to Balisarius to earn a place in the senate. After being killed by Kora, Noble is revived by the Priests of Motherworld and returns to the village. When villagers rise up, Noble unleashes his army on them before ordering his ship to blow up the village and all his troops still down.
I don't really remember anything from Rebel Moon, but yeah Atticus ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Glot and Deroux.
Deroux
I also have another candidate from The Bill. This is from the Series 15 (1999) episode "Ring-A-Ring O Roses".
This candidate, is, without question, one of the most unusual I have ever come across. He doesn't (directly at least) kill anyone, he has only 1 known rape to his name and in the episode the police find it impossible to charge him with anything.
So, I hear you ask, how on earth can a guy with no murders and only one known rape, making him WAY below the heinous standard for this show, possibly qualify? Let alone be one of the worst keeps from this show I've found yet?
Well...
PC Ackland and Rickman respond to reports of a disturbance and find a known prostitute on the floor beaten to near death by her pimp. Apart from the carnage in her flat and her badly beaten body, the only other thing of note is some writing on her back that says "Join The Club." This writing isn't new to the police, and two other prostitutes have reported by restrained and having the same thing written on their backs. A search leads them to our candidate, one Andy Marshall, and the horrid significance of this writing soon becomes clear.
What has he done?
When he was a child, Marshall was the son of two doting parents. But his mother, when Andy was young, got pregnant with Andy's sister and Andy no longer found himself the center of attention anymore. Enraged, Andy set about recitifying this by faking having epilepsy and terrorized his parents and sisters for years by faking massive fits which got worst and worse with each passing year. Eventually, though, Andy was caught putting soap in his mouth one day and nearly thrown out of the family. Not content with stopping there, after realizing the power he could get through this kind of emotional terror, Marshall decided to get his jollies in an entirely different way.
Growing into a man, Marshall would commit serial emotional abuse on every single one of his girlfriends by pretending to either already be married or faking terminal illness just for the attention it would give him and to emotionally terrorize them. Massively dissapointed when two women he was string along didn't react in the way he hoped (one of them being DS Liz Rawton, a member of the CID department) after Rawton is unbothered by the fact of him being married and his other girlfriend becoming pregnant, Marshall escalated his abuse in an absolutely horrific manner.
Stealing a bunch of HIV medicine and keeping it in the boathouse where he lives, Marshall then enacted a campaign of terror on prostitutes in the region. Paying for their services, Marshall would then tie them up and, after having unprotected penetrative sex with them, sadistically and falsely inform them that he was HIV positive and then write "Join The Club" on their backs as a horrific taunt. Any who tell him to use protection or resist are either raped or find that Marshall has pulled the condom off before the sex. We see at least four of the people he has done this to onscreen, with one of his victims commiting suicide due to believing herself to have spread it to her husband, another (the victim found at the beginning) being beaten to near death by her pimp due to being infected and another being so traumatized that she flees abroad. By his own admission, Marshall does this to 25+ prostitutes, ruining who knows how many lives.
Arrested after being caught trying to victimize another prostitute and being recognised and attacked by them, Marshall sadistically taunted the investigating officers the whole time, making a particular effort to traumatize DS Rawton by making her believe that she was also HIV positive and had infected all her subsequent lovers with it as well. However, Rawton discovered his ruse by finding the stolen medicine in his boat under different names, leading him to brand her a bitch. Unfrotunately though, only one person is willing to testify against Marshall as all of his other victims are too ashamed to come forward and reveal their status (especially as many of them are leading a double life) and the only one who says they will eventually succumbs to her trauma after she reveals her story to her husband and he kicks her out. With the only evidence dying with her and the case against him collapsing, Marshall ends the episode smugly walking out of the station with a grin on his face in front of an enraged PC Ackland, having gotten away with everything.
Heinous Standard?
With a double digit victim count, Marshall is one of the most prolific offenders in the show and is one of the worst I have seen yet. I honestly don't even know where to place him, being a man who falsely infects people with HIV, but I think serial torturer would probably fit. Easy pass.
Redeeming Qualties or Freudian Excuse?
Nothing. Every single person in Andy's life he terrorizes just because he wants to be the centre of attention. He did the same thing to his own parents (it's implied his mother may have actually died early due to the stress) and, whilst he keeps in contact with his father, he does nothing but lie to him. He also terrorizes every woman he comes into contact with, with not even his pregnant girlfriend escaping his horrific abuse. He's certainly good at pretending to care about certain people like his pregnant ex girlfriend but this is revealed to entirely be an act by the end of the episode. Pass.
Conclusion?
Yes to this nasty prick.
Edited by Atlantis1930 on May 6th 2024 at 6:28:37 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So a double digit rape count? I'll give a yes.
Weak yes to Glot I think.
Edited by ACW on May 6th 2024 at 1:32:34 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Marshall
Goku Black
marshall
for Andy Marshall.
to Andy Marshall. Damn that's twisted.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Andy Marshall.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Marshall
Marshall.
Finally beaten Stellar Blade. Honestly one of the best games of the year alongside Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. PM for details about any potential keepers.
Fernando David Páez Contreras
Welp... this is my first proposalon this page. And I really hope to do a good job at it.
For this proposal, I decided to go with a popular tale from my country that has been my earliest fear in my life. And quite possibly one of the most terrifying ghost stories around the world.
What is the work?
Not necessarily a work of fiction, but rather a folklore. Venezuelan folklore to be exact. Venezuela has many legends, and many, many ghosts and monsters who's legends can keep you awake at night... for weeks. La Sayona, El Hachero, the Momoyes, the Seven-Headed Snake from the Orinoco river, etc... However, out of all these ghosts and demons, there is one who stands out above the rest. The most terrifying and evil spirit in Venezuelan legend. El Silbón.
And while this particular tale has had many versions throughout the years, some of them painting him on a sympathetic light, the one I'm going to focus on today is his most deplorable interpretation, and the one I'm personally most familiar with: the original Los Llanos version.
Who is El Silbón and what has he done?
Like many ghosts, El Silbón was once a mortal human. He was the son of a farmer couple from the Venezuelan Llanos, and... he was a spoiled brat who demanded his parents to treat him like a prince and physically and verbally abused them for his own gain. One day, he ordered that his father make venison for dinner, so his father went to hunt down a deer for it. When the poor man was unable to find one, the son, furious at his father's "incompetence" decided to straight up kill his father, and rip out his organs and demanding his mother to cook them.
When the mother asked her son where she found these organs, the boy, rather shamelessly, admitted that he got them from his father. Horrified by this revelation, the woman disowns and curses her son. When the news reach to the boy's grandfather, he becomes so enraged that he ties him up to a tree and beats him to a pulp, applies chilli pepper to the wounds, and sends out two hunting dogs to chase him and, invitably, kill him.
However, like every ghost story, the boy's death was only the beginning of his horrifying tale.
The boy's spirit becomes a demonic entity the size of a tree, and now roams through all of Los Llanos, carrying his father's bones in a sack that he's condemned to carry for the rest of eternity, hiding in the trees to kill random individuals, removing their bones and organs, and puts them in his sack along with his father's remains. His most recognizable feature, and what gives him his name, is his demonic whistle, which resembles the musical notes Do, Re, Mi, Fa, So La and Si. If you hear it nearby, it means he's far away and that you're safe. But if you hear it from far away... it means he's right beside you.
The only way to scare El Silbón off is with either a whip (the weapon used by his grandfather to punish him), chilli pepper (what was used on his wounds), and a domestic dog (the animal that killed him many years ago).
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
None. The original version of the tale painted him as nothing more than a spoiled psychopath who was willing to kill his father simply for not being able to find a deer. Other versions of the tale often painted him as a tragic figure who either targets womanizers and drunkards, or trying to protect his lover from his abusive parents. In the original version, however, none of these apply. It's him who is the abuser, and his parents are the victims of his cruelty, and his death is not at all played for sympathy, being portrayed instead as karmic punishment for his horrible actions. He was just as much a monster in life as he is in death.
Is he bad enough?
His murder of his father was completely horrible, and it's enough to paint him as an evil man. But, after becoming a ghost, his body count grew exponentially, killing innocent people by the thousands. And considering that his tale dates way back to the 19th century, that gives him 200 years of killing innocent Venezuelans who've had the bad luck of entering his domains.
And unlike other ghosts from Venezuela, he doesn't have a tragic backstory or even standards on whom he kills. He's a spiritual serial killer who's been terrorizing the Venezuelan Llanos for almost three centuries.
Final verdict?
In the end, it's up to others to decide. But as for me, I'll give him a solid
Not the Eye
El Silbón
Good first EP.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
....Phenomenal
for Glot, Deroux, Marshall, and Silbón.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Wizzro.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll give a yes.
PENDING
- Red Dead stuff (Ravok)
- Rebel Moon: Balisarius (Ghal-Sur)
- True Detective: Kate McKittrick (Crow)
- World of Warcraft: Yogg-Saron (Forgo)
- Black Panther (2023): Kivu'Ma (Mir)
- Devil King (NTG)
- The Princess (2022): Julius (Ravok)
- The Defenders of Remnant: Norman (STAR)
- Palpatine (Tadi)
Edited by ACW on May 6th 2024 at 4:52:31 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
for El Silbon.
Late Myron.
Has Abigail (2024) been discussed yet
Not the Eye
Lizzid people!
It has. It was deemed to have no candidates.
Harbinger of Cringe
Alright so, now that I am coming back to this thread. There is a candidate I wanted to discuss. However said candidate is one that has been talked about and rejected quite a few times over the years, which leads me to feeling unsure about it. If anyone is interested, I'll elaborate on who exactly I am talking about, but before then I just wanted to see if anyone would show interest in me bringing them up.
My mere presence makes everyone's day worse.
I'm sorry, would there be any more opinions on Glot
? Looks like his EP has gotten a little lost behind Deroux, so I've only got four votes by now.