Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Narinder. Good song btw.
The One Who Waits
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the One.
It...PROBABLY would be enough under the rules, but I've never been a big fan of said rules.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Shin Megami Tensei IV
- Dragon Ball AF compillation and re-telling by DB News: After being defeated by Goku again during GT, Frieza and Cell studied the Fusion Dance and improved it to become strong enough to escape from hell and obtain revenge. Arriving to a higher dimension, Friecell threatened its strongest warrior and forced her to fight the Saiyans while Friecell kidnapped Uub to force him in a ritual that resurrected Majin Buu, who fused with the villain to create Cellbuuzer, the new strongest being in the known Multiverse. To test his new powers, Cellbuuzer destroyed Earth after playing with Vegeta and mocking his attempts to mitigate the damage before spawning a army of minions that caused destruction across the entire multiverse, with no dimension or planet being spared. When the Saiyans return to fight Cellbuuzer after training their powers, Cellbuuzer tortures Gohan while declaring his intention to do the same to all Saiyans. When Goku reaches a new ultimate tranformation, Cellbuuzer tries to destroy the entire known multiverse in a last ditch attempt to take down the Saiyans.
Chak Ek, the Emissary, Harry, the Witch, the Warden, Rede, the One Who Waits.
I'm here with yet another version of the Arch-Enemy of Alice, Girl from the Future, fresh from the cinema. For a change, here he's called Glot instead of Rat.
Glot, One Hundred Years Ahead.
The work
One Hundred Years Ahead is a new (premiered on April 18) and very loose adaptation of Kir Bulychev's novel of the same name.The character
Glot is a leader of the space Piratic Alliance. He is an emotionless humanoid who can travel in time, is able to exhibit voodoo-like mind control, and plans to take over the galaxy. He starts a galactic war.In a fight with galaxy forces' agent Kira Seleznyova, Glot loses the cosmion — the substance that used to be inside his body and that allowed his Emergency Temporal Shift ability. He is arrested, but Kira is thrown back a hundred years into the past.
Ten years (in both timelines) later, Kira is a schoolteacher, and Kolya, one of her students, accidentally finds the cosmion, ingests it, and is thrown one hundred years ahead. Glot senses the cosmion's reappearance and convinces his subordinate Jolly U to help him break out of prison. They swear a vow of alliance concerning the hunt for the cosmion, including swearing never to hurt each other. It's Serious Business and physically unbreakable.
They try to capture Kolya, and in the process, Glot, by controlling Kolya's body, kills Professor Seleznyov, Kira's husband. But in the fight, Kolya throws them all, including Kira's daughter Alice, one hundred years back.
In the past, while Jolly U is having a cool-looking fighting showdown at school, trying again to capture Kolya, Glot goes for a simpler way of Make Wrong What Once Went Right. With his hypnotic abilities, he makes sure Earth's first contact with the Star Federation never happens, leaving it ripe for the pirates' conquest.
Kolya does an Emergency Temporal Shift once more (taking Alice, Kira, and three unsuspecting classmates along), and they see the Crapsack World Bad Future. Earth is now a pirates' base, anyone without ID is killed on the spot, and anyone with ID works like a slave for the pirates. Kolya and Co. stumble upon Jolly U, living in hiding (using some dead hands as fake ID): Glot never shared his power with him, so Mistreatment-Induced Betrayal happened. They agree to work together and go to intercept Glot from making his change of the future.
However, they realize it's a trap: Glot knew from the start that they arrived, since he can sense cosmion, and he only wants them to lure out Jolly U. He swore never to hurt the man — his subordinate pirates, on the other hand… Once Jolly U dies, the contract of hunting for cosmion together and only together is void.
A brutal fight follows where Jolly U is indeed killed and everyone else barely escapes. Glot, in both timelines, nearly kills the heroes who rush to stop him. Indeed, in the Bad Future, Kolya is only brought back to life by The Power of Love from Alice (after she is forced to strangle him while under Glot's control). Glot is only killed because Kolya goads him into gloating about his victory in the past. Glot (in possession of the cosmion thanks to Kolya's near-death) brings them to the past. Cue Never the Selves Shall Meet and Cessation of Existence for him.
(It turns out that Kira's husband is alive: thanks to Kolya using Trick Out Time, a hologram was "killed" in his place).
Mitigating issues?
Zero. He vows never to hurt Jolly U just because he needs him as muscle — and proceeds to use Loophole Abuse to get around that. In the past, he hypnotises Fima (the boy who made the first contact with the benevolent aliens) rather than kill him, but that's simply out of Pragmatic Villainy: he is perfectly ready to kill Fima and his friends in a later showdown.Heinousness Standard?
Out of the two non-mook villains? The worse one no doubt. Jolly U gets better after a Mistreatment-Induced Betrayal and even in his worst days has Pet the Dog moments and is implied to have a not-quite-selfish crush on Kira.The bodycount for Glot may be a problem: when he becomes the planetary dictator, the only implied kills (besides the attempted ones of the heroes) we get are those of people without ID. Otherwise, only slavery is mentioned.
Conclusion?
You decide.Edited by AutumnLeaves on May 6th 2024 at 1:06:20 PM
to Chak Ek, Emissary of Chaos, Maniac Harry, the Witch, the Warden, Daniel Rede and the One Who Waits.
Unsure about Glot, how much weight does the narrative give the slavery and murders?
Well, the second half of the movie is pretty much everyone trying to escape it and then prevent it all. Especially the attempted killings: with his control powers, Glot nearly kills all the main characters. He actually kills three: Professor Seleznyov, Jolly U, and Kolya; though two of these killings end up foiled (the professor is replaced by a hologram and Kolya is brought back to life), they are all shown as heavy tragedies, and the characters don't know about the Death Is Cheap cases until they happen.
We are shown the panorama of the Bad Future very briefly, but with its Matrix-reality-like dark-themed cityscapes and the killer robots and mooks scouting around, the gravity of the situation is conveyed.
Leaning to to Glot in that case.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Wizzro. Low-tier compared to other villains even within that game, and his agency is murky.
Caesar
In a Western mood after Red Dead dive (which I'll be writing up shortly), so lemme talk one of the earliest Western flicks, made by one of the kings of the genre:
What's the work?
The Iron Horse is a 1924 silent film that was one of the first "epic" Westerns, directed by John Ford. Set around the construction of the first transcontinental railroad of America, we follow young man Davy Brandon as he tries to fulfill his lost father's dream of using a shortcut through a ravine to shave off the construction time of the railroad and join the West and East of America together. But there's a villainous landowner out to thwart Davy, with a more personal connection to the man than it would seem...
Who is Deroux? What has he done?
- Deroux—called Bauman in the international version—is a wealthy landowner who is the Big Bad of the film. With his Red Right Hand of a mutilated right hand that is missing 3 fingers, Deroux owns the hundreds of miles of land that the transcontinental railroad is initially planned to be built upon, and Deroux plans to wallow in the fortune that he'll be paid for use of his land. But there's a problem: a shortcut through a nearby ravine that would leave Deroux's land obsolete. So what's a man to do?
- Deroux hatches a...really, really weird plot. He somehow convinces a local tribe of Cheyenne that he is a "brother" to the tribe, and manipulates them into doing his bidding. Said "bidding" being the routine murder and mayhem in the name of scaring people off from any route other than building on his land.
- The Cheyenne regularly lay siege to railroad shipments and kill groups of men on Deroux's orders, and in the opening scene, Deroux confronts a man—Davy's father—who has stumbled upon the ravine shortcut. Deroux, dressed up as a Cheyenne, viciously hacks the man to death and scalps him in a surprisingly shocking scene for the time, scarring a hidden Davy who swears vengeance on "the man with two fingers."
- Years later after many attacks by the Cheyenne, a now-adult Davy begins searching for the ravine to use it as a shortcut. Deroux manipulates a man into trying to kill Davy multiple times to silence him, and when this fails and Davy finds the shortcut, Deroux drops all pretenses and whips the Cheyenne up into a frenzy for war. Deroux leads the Cheyenne in an attempt to plainly massacre the entire population of railroad workers and surveyors in the area to ensure the "shortcut" is never again considered as an option, but with the help of the "trusted Pawnee tribe" and armed citizens, Davy overcomes the villains and faces Deroux in a final duel where he strangles the villain to death, finally avenging his father.
Mitigating features?
None, he's a greedy SOB who just wants to ensure the railroad is built on his land so he can profit from it, and he manipulates the Cheyenne into being his hatchetmen to accomplish it.
Heinousness?
A bunch of people are killed throughout the film by the Cheyenne explicitly on Deroux's orders before he leads them in an attempted slaughter of dozens of townsfolk and workers, and Deroux personally butchered Davy's dad which gives him a nasty personal edge.
Final Verdict?
Simple, easy keep.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Ultimate Moral Compass
Deroux
The wifi here sucks
Not the Eye
Glot and Deroux
Edited by EmperorGeode on May 6th 2024 at 2:58:29 AM
Goku Black
Deroux
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Deroux.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
One, Glot and Deroux
Deroux
Since we're less than two weeks out from the release, I'd like to claim The Strangers: Chapter 1 for discussion if that's ok with everyone.
Edited by Bozzy on May 6th 2024 at 5:40:51 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
that’s fine with me
to Deroux.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yea to Deroux.
A coupla mammals makin' gravy
Yes to Deroux.
- Myron, one of the Chosen One's potential followers, is a slimy, teenaged Mad Scientist in the pocket of Big Jesus Mordino. Myron's claim to fame is a particularly nasty and addictive version of Jet that he tested out first on over one-hundred slaves, resulting in every one of them dying horribly before he developed a less lethal version. Continuing to refine the drug on the neverending supply slaves from the Den, Myron's actions have led to the Mordinos taking over New Reno and most of Redding, enslaving the population through horrible Jet addiction and turning the cities into wretched hives. Myron's only concern about all this is that he doesn't feel he's been given enough credit for it, angrily complaining about how ungrateful Mordino is, all while he lives in luxury most in the Wasteland would kill for. Myron is also a sexual predator who will attempt to roofie and rape a female Chosen One with low Intelligence.
- Salt-Upon-Wounds is the warchief of the White Legs, a particularly savage tribe of raiders with no driving philosophy except for Rape, Pillage, and Burn. Hoping to join Caesar's Legion, Salt-Upon-Wounds showed his mettle by slaughtering the peaceful Mormon town of New Canaan, beating children to death in their beds and burning the town's bishop alive in his own home. Salt-Upon-Wounds nailed the dead to a nearby cliff and salted the earth so nothing would ever grow again. Salt-Upon-Wounds follows the survivors to Zion where he intends to repeat the slaughter on not just them, but their ally tribes the Sorrows and the Dead Horses as well.
- The Blood and the Eye are a duumvirate of Raiders responsible for transforming the Blood Eagles from an unorganized group of drug-addicted psychos into the most brutal Raider gang in Appalachia. The Blood and the Eye recruit and discipline new Blood Eagles through chem addiction and brutal torture, leaving those who survive completely insane and unbreakably loyal to the Blood Eagles. Their masterpiece is the "Claw," a man named Frankie Beckett who snapped particularly hard after a torture session with the Eye. Ruthless opportunists instead of tragic monsters, and responsible for atrocities ranging from cannibalism to mass murder of the sickly and helpless, the Blood and the Eye stand out even compared to other Raiders for their sheer cruelty.
- Otis Skinner is one of the leaders of the Skinner Brothers, their founder, and the epitome of their causeless Ax-Crazy sadism. Otis and his Skinners terrorize the Tall Trees region, capturing innocents to torture them to death in all manner of ways, then keeping their mutilated bodies as trophies mounted around their camps. If he's brought in alive, Otis will gloat nobody can stop what he started and vows a wave of slaughter in revenge, and cheerfully mocks the police chief of Blackwater over having tortured and castrated several of his previous deputies.
Jogo
Deroux
