Hades & Hades 2

The stream gave some glimpses on a bunch of new characters.

Schelemeus is back in the role of our training dummy and Odysseus appears as an NPC, deconfirming the theory that he was Skellys secret identety.

Then aside from Apollo who already appeared in the trailer do we have confirmation of Hestia, Selene and Hephaestus as new gods providing boons (though Hestias portrait is not finished yet. That leaves now only Hera as the final Olympian who has yet to make an appearance. And then there is also a new clothes enhancement mechanic, provided by Arachne.

Edited by uncertanSearcher on Apr 17th 2024 at 11:48:09 AM

I wonder if they'll start dipping into the minor Olympian gods. It'd be nice to see, like, an Eris set of boons - she'd be a good one to gravitate a critical hit mechanic to.

Also, I wonder about demigods, especially for bosses. We got Theseus last time. It'd be fun if we got a fight against, like, Perseus or Atalanta, and they were the exact opposite of Theseus personality-wise. Or if we got to fight one of Daedalus' creations or something. Or Orestes, and it's all just one big Greek play / existentialism homage.

In any case, it's nice that Haphaestus is showing up. I always joked that the reason he never showed up in the first game is that he's the only Greek god who is explicitly not sexy.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 17th 2024 at 4:50:14 AM

Could be cool to include the Oneiroi, since, like the Furies there are three of them.

This all sounds so exciting! <3

… Kratos namesake the god of strength XD

Let me just say, that if this game gives us a romantic parallel to the original's Achilles/Patroclus with a similar treatment of Odysseus/Penelope, then I'll be satisfied. Am I really the only one who tends to be bothered by the fact that modern retellings always acknowledge that Odysseus loved Penelope above everything, and compromised his morals and dignity to get back to her, but don't acknowledge that Calypso using that to force him into having unwanted sex was in fact rape? (Circe to a lesser degree, because that was presented as way more consensual and also way less sympathetic, because ancient Greek morality in regards to sex was fucked).

Given that there's talk of Chronos' army of traitors, I wonder if we might be seeing any old faces but on the opposing side. Specifically I wonder if there's a possibility that Ares might be on the Titan's side. In the first game he very much came off as someone who didn't really care where the chips fell, so long as they did. Tellingly though, Aphrodite is wearing his war paint, potentially implying he's already fallen in battle against Chronos and her motivation in part is to avenge her lover. Somewhat awkward given that her husband Hephaestus is actually in this game as part of the pantheon.

I do wonder if they’ll play up the parallels between Kronos and Zeus

Since Hades biggest strength was how it handled well Hades as being a fleshed out character

I’d consider it a big ball drop if they don’t do the same with the titans

One gotcha I can think of is the whole Prometheus and fire bit

Though remember that Zeus eventually let Prometheus off. That's why Heracles was even allowed to free Prometheus at all.

It's a pretty big deal since the Olympians generally didn't let anyone off of their punishments.

Kronos' main thing was that he was afraid of losing his power even to his own children. Especially since he had usurped his own father. Zeus wasn't always the best father, but he never ate his own children.

Edited by M84 on Apr 18th 2024 at 2:28:29 AM

Generational Trauma is a big thing for the whole pantheon, so I wouldn't be surprised if Cronus' overthrow of Ouranos is mentioned too, as well as Zeus's attempts to avoid a related prophecy.

I imagine Zeus has a pretty big scar on his head from when Athena sprang forth when Hephaestus smashed it open.

Zeus only ever acted twice to avert the appearance of a child who would overthrow him. Swallowing Metis was a failed attempt to avert Athena's birth. Fortunately for Zeus, the prophecy was an Either-Or one — he would only have been overthrown if Metis' child was a son. Metis being stuck in his head also meant that she would never give birth to any more of Zeus' children (such as the potential son who would overthrow him).

The second time was when he found out the Nereid Thetis was destined to give birth to a son more powerful than whoever his father was. So he resisted temptation and arranged matters so that she would be married to a mortal king instead — which is how Achilles was born.

Edited by M84 on Apr 18th 2024 at 2:49:22 AM

There's been schools of thought that twice-born Zagreus-Dionysus was the son who would overthrow him, but sadly we'll never know for sure. XD

I hope Cerberus is okay :( I'm worried Mel will have to fight him!

Dionsnysus slowly reverting back to the horned god of madness would be an awesome twist

An interesting thing is that Kronos does get forgiven in some versions. He goes on to rule over the Eulysian Fields.

@ M84: You know it's serious when Zeus keeps it in his pants

That sounds like some underused material for Greek mythology-based stories. Similarly, I find it interesting to learn that according to some stories, Zeus had six wives before Hera. This includes Leto (so in that interpretation Hera doesn't have beef with the twins), Demeter and Themis (one of the goddesses/a Titaness of the Scales of Justice)

Plus you also have to take into account that every major city state had their own personal spin

Ie Athens wasn’t keen on Ares but Sparta weren’t fans of thier rivals namesake

Athena was Sparta's patron goddess, iirc. They loved her there.

I dunno where the whole "Spartans were really obsessed with Ares and really hated Athena" Common Knowledge came from, but with no other options I'm just gonna take a guess and blame Frank Miller.

Granted, the first place I saw it was a kid was in the Hercules animated show, so maybe it's Disney's fault.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 18th 2024 at 11:21:09 AM

300 didn't make any references to Ares in particular. So we can't blame Frank Miller for that at least.

Y'know, on the topic of the gods' character. People act as though the definitive version of the greek pantheon were extremely awful assholes, but its more complicated than that.

I've read that the earliest recorded version of Medusa's backstory in which she was raped by Poseidon was actually a later story by the Roman poet Ovid (found in his poem 'Metamorphoses'). Prior to that she just came into being the same way her sisters were, ironically enough as the children of two sea-gods Phorcys and his sister Ceto or of 'gorgon' and ceto. In Hesiod's Theogony, Poseidon had sex with Medusa but from my reading it wasn't described as rape).

Ovid's version doesn't make much sense to begin with if Medusa had sisters who were always gorgons. The Arachne myth we're all familiar with also happens to come from that same poem, and from what I've read there is basically nothing about her recorded in any earlier works. Vergil apparently mentions in

Considering that Ovid apparently had a staunch anti-authoritarian agenda, its most likely that his retellings aren't very indicative of the majority of the earlier Greek sources when it comes to how authority (i.e. the gods) were depicted. You might say it doesn't matter since 'greek mythology doesn't have canon', but most people treat his poems as though they are the definitive canon of all greek mythology when they likely had a very different perspective from many retellings, especially more traditional Greek ones. In fact, his version has dominated the cultural perception of greek myth so much that most people don't even know it.

I haven't looked into how other gods were depicted pre-ovid, but having learnt all this it makes me wonder if even Zeus was given a bad reputation by the guy.

Ovid was a parodist, disliked the gods, and is known for making things up when it suited him, but the gods generally operate on a My Rules Are Not Your Rules mindset with Blue-and-Orange Morality.

Imagine being Virgil or Ovid and people are still referencing your version of a story 2000 years later.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Apr 19th 2024 at 5:04:14 AM

Amusingly Poseidon and monster Medusa did have a fling.

Now I'm thinking of a Hades game fanfic chapter about the time Theseus and Pirithous came to the Underworld to try and abduct Persephone, which the fic makes about the same time Heracles showed up, wounded Hades with an arrow, and borrowed the dog.

Hades had the worst day of his existence so far. XD

It was a worse day for Theseus and Pirithous. Remember Hades tricked them into being stuck on chairs. Heracles was allowed to free Theseus, but Theseus lost a good chunk of his ass cheeks in the process.

Heracles was not allowed to free Pirithous. Pirithous' ass was stuck. Forever.

After a certain point at least he probably wouldn't be able to feel his butt anymore. XD

Oooh, I wonder if he'll be a boss fight. Maybe Chronos makes his chair mobile.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Apr 19th 2024 at 5:31:57 AM

The talk about Ovid reminds me of how much one obscure version of a legend tends to dominate the common perception. I've come to have a particularly strong dislike for the Artemis/Orion as lovers thing.